AMITYVILLE: A NEW GENERATION

AMITYVILLE: A NEW GENERATION
Can an Amityville entry be saved by including actors such as David Naughton, Richard Roundtree, and Terry O'Quinn? That's the question we posed to our guest host, Kim Douthit, and you're probably not going to be surprised by the answer. Kim is also a real ghost hunter, and you better believe we got into that with her, as well!

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The Amityville Horror session, 3d de strange aeons radio presents The Amityville Horror Picture Show. That's Eric. I am Kelly we are your hosts on the increasingly strange journey of the Amityville film franchise of which there are 50 some entries as of this recording. There are so many entries because the Amityville murders of 1974 are public fact and there is no copyright on the name of Amityville. Each episode features a revolving door of guest hosts and today I'm thrilled to introduce Kim Douthat as our MD Ville, a new generation guest hosts. And Kim. Nice to see you again. Thanks for having me back. Please take 30 seconds. Brace yourself. Don't leave out the gust the ghost hunting please. Oh, yes. Ah, well, Mike. Yes, my name is Kim. I'm a Seattle area performer, Director, filmmaker, educator. I do ghost hunting and haunted tours it spooked in Seattle. I have my own podcast with the fellow ghost hunter Gaby called ghoulish tendencies. I talked about horror films at cryptic con, which is how I met you awesome, folks. There's all things and you're not even did a detail murders episode or an Amityville episode on your own pocket? We did. Yeah, a couple years back we did a double episode The first half covering the murders the second half covering the haunt. Well said, yeah, that's but which is it's such a bonkers case. Which really? Yeah, both sides, both sides. Everyone who's listened to these episodes knows how Eric and I feel. But I missed out on the phenomena of like, this is this could have been happening because I was an 80s. Baby. So when I write so yeah, we call this everybody's Amityville origin story. Eric and I were alive during this we lived through I mean, my parents, my mom had the book in the house and we watched the the TV specials and everything like that and saw the movie in the theater. But that was not the case with you know, that was not the case with me. I was actually initially more familiar with the murder side. Being the big True Crime person that I am. I was familiar with the DeFeo murders. And then I went to college on Long Island where it's obviously a much bigger thing. He's like Bundy to us too. It's your local weird your local crazy. Oh, we got a bunch over here. Oh, yeah. Take your pick. Go down the list. I like to play six degrees to a serial killer if you grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Awesome game. Maybe not awesome. That's the wrong word. But no, my roommate my freshman year was super into the case and was convinced like it's a demon house. It's a demon out. Okay, simmer down now, but she made it her mission to make sure I was educated on Amityville and all of its or maybe mis educated mis education I think even then I was just like, okay girl I mean, I believe in ghosts but did you actually go visit the house? Did you get to see it? She took me out like we drove out one day but then it took her a while to find it because I believe this was post them changing and so we eventually found it but it didn't look the same and that through her because I think she used to go a lot when she was younger and hadn't done it recently and she's like, Susan Wait there's no eyes demons eyes but devils I was like oh, that's the wrong franchise sweetie. No. But yeah, so so we did but it was it was it was in it's it's Botox days or whatever. It wasn't quite as impressive. Well, okay, so this episode we are talking about the seventh film in the Amityville franchise. This is really interesting film because the next film is the 2005 Ryan Reynolds remake. We're already up to that. There's a there's like a 10 year break. Oh, I bet significant for some reason I was thinking there's like late 90s ones too. Yeah. Nope. So this one we're talking about is Amityville a next generation so it's interesting Where did you get this? Fantastic No, this man What do you see maybe you just got to look at until 726 years ago upstate New York please call me for your friend here blew away his whole family prognosis paranoid delusional sucks what does it signify about the one advantage murdering your entire family for sure to inherit everything it's in your blood I want to help you the hell out of me it's probably not loaded anyway we'll take back control together with Ron and his as a terrible thing. But that doesn't mean you're going to be live he's not going to show me how do you know that? I'm proud of you son is from 1993 It had a budget of $1.5 million. No box office because it went straight to video. No Rotten Tomatoes critics score but a soaring 28% from the audience directed by genre Loski who has 43 directing credits mostly Lifetime movie type stuff. flicks like sinister stepsister or killer caregiver or birth mother's betrayal. I'm not a fan of alliteration, so these titles offend me. However, he also directed zombie Hamlet, terminal error and black Cadillac all of which are titles I approve of. Don't forget Santa with muscles. I missed that one. I'm sorry. Santo is that that's the actually that's whole Cogan. Oh my god. I need to find this movie. how the mighty have fallen. Okay, still working. He's got films coming out this year. So yes, got a ton of directing credits. Yeah. This was written by the writing team of Christopher reo and Antonio Toro who both wrote the last Amityville flick, it's about time right. So we've got we've got the same writers of the last hit. Antonio didn't go on to anything else really. But if mario became a pretty big muckety, Muck producing and executive producing films such as Ready Player One, Mad Max Fury Road and gravity. All right, moved up a little. Yeah. All right. Don't feel too bad for him. Starring Ross Partridge, who has ad acting credits, mostly one shot television episodes. He was also in dressing Park, the last world as curious man, or the kiss as actor. He was in prom night as businessman and he was in the freebie as a bartender. Oh, it was a great performance. So yeah. All right. Some of his best work. Here though, is probably in this was good here. Also in this is Lala Sloman which is an excellent villain name in my opinion. 17 credits including Joe Versus the Volcano, The Adventures of Ford Fairlane and Eric pump up the volume Hell yeah. Fair um, right. Julia Nixon has also in this she has 62 credits mostly TV but also Rambo First Blood Part Two Double Dragon and the model iser. Yeah. Oh. I read that. I was like, That's not a word. For them for trying. And then the the office scene. David notton 94 credits including Eric steel and lace. Hey, that sounds familiar Midnight Madness, and American Werewolf in London, and nine episodes of banking it making it also in this movie Ontario Quinn, Richard Roundtree Lin che and Tom Wright all actors you will recognize when you see them guys, I I watched this movie only three times. Normally I give it a nice five time writing but I've been very busy. So all my notes are kind of as I'm watching, just speaking into my microphone and recording so as we go through this, please jump in. Tell me anything that you want to give me more detail on. I hope see how it'll work out for me. I had a very weird viewing of this. I was laying in bed about four in the morning. We got this going on this week. before so I got up and I watched it that was your that was your one viewing of this was good. So it should be fun to see how it seems like I remember it very well. So we'll see how that goes. And then can you wash it four or five times? Yeah, four or five times. That was I so many times I could just recite it verbatim for you right now in my one woman show. That's how many times that I watched it with my cat. Because I watched it twice. Once with each I mostly you guys are really disappointing commitment to this podcast. That level of 90s movie going on for it where you're like, I've seen this movie. It is very familiar. Yeah. First off, I would just want to say this is a movie The moral of which seems to be do not accept furniture from homeless people. I mean, that was already like, kind of a motto I lived by. So I'm glad that this reinforced that lesson. Yes. That Amityville takes Manhattan was able to do that. So that's what I feel like would have been a better accent. This is supposed to be Philadelphia. I know. But it had such that like, I also had questions of this mirror unbroken. I'm jumping ahead and I apologize spoiler alert. This is the one about the mirror. Yeah. But that it makes its way unbroken from for it. And this homeless man is carrying it there. It's magically cursed that the curse of not breaking. So these are the notes I had made after watching it first. The movie isn't as bad as the Amityville curse. The last one we simply has a bunch of actors that are pretty good at it. They are not necessarily good in this movie. But we know that they're good actors given a strong script. Hard, real hard. From their head to their toe, I see the acting. So right off the bat like you were saying Kim, a homeless dude pushing a shopping cart breaks into a car window on a city street. And that makes us like a Robocop world started I was like, when is this? He steals an umbrella steals an umbrella. That was my favorite part. I was like, is he taking the stereo? Is there a No it's the umbrella. Simple okay. And then we go up to the taken us department he can well actually his girlfriend could look out and see this happening. And they live in an apartment that will cost roughly $4 million. Oh my god. Yes. Stories The best artists loft building has ever existed exposed brick and wood floor to ceiling windows like my old apartment. The plants in the hallways between apartments. So we're little lobby they have till they go outside. And then I'm like, That's the outside of this bill. Yeah. Yeah, none of it really works. And also supposed to be an artist commune. And I'm like, you know, why didn't I ever get in on this kind of deal? I want to know where the I'm like, How can I what's happening? Where Where do I sign up? Because I've done a couple of those before and none of them look like that? Yeah, yeah. Which makes it tough to believe that our protagonist keys like is a struggling artist, but not based on the amount of space they have in the place and however much that awkward it is costing to get his hair looking. Fucking amaze. He's struggling to find the perfect blend of haircare products. We've all been there he uses more than his girlfriend. Oh absolutely. takes more time on his hair than his girlfriend. Guaranteed for sure for sure. Also, his neighbor is Sookie who is also an artist very attractive and she's got an asshole boyfriend played. Did you guys recognize him? The dude from Vamp and something else? I can't remember. Yeah. I just want you guys to know he's pounding on the door to get let in but he is thwarted right? This? This comes back later. Yo Yeah, matters. Seven is Stella moments. And then David notton shows up on a bicycle built for two. Yeah, that is here's the dark here what is going on? I I literally sat up and I was like, this movie is already fucking bonkers. Yes. Who's riding a bicycle built for two? What what are they trying to say? What's going on with David not and at this point in 1994. This is really only 10 years 12 years after American Werewolf in London. Sure. He's taking whatever he can get I guess. Yeah, yeah. I felt you know, bicycle built for two by yourself is another statement on life and society. Well, he's losing this. He's wisdom. Yeah, no. But is he really with him? Well, no. See? The movie she just shows up at the end to be a very important place filler. Yes. But she really does nothing until that final out. Yeah. Was are they a couple? Because later on it doesn't seem like they're a couple, at least not in his head. But I think that was supposed to be without them outwardly saying it. I was like, oh, that's why you're being so sheepish later on, because you're doing things you shouldn't be doing. I may have been reading more into that than it deserved. Certainly more than the writers did. Yes. Good point. I asked questions. They don't. Typical typical east coast, this coffee shop on the bottom floor of this place. Very nice shop in sight of this god awful. Yeah, called Ground Zero. They always have to have a goofy name. grounds, cool artwork on the wall. And that's when I'm starting to look at this going. Is this supposed to be New York? Is this supposed to be Philadelphia? It's too clean, quite honestly, to be New York, or Philadelphia for that. That's a good point. Except it's actually shot in Philadelphia. So it's very clean Park. cleaned it up, and then they put a car there for the guy to break into. I kept getting that very New York vibe or aesthetic. Yeah. Which made these Yeah. Yeah, definitely not 70s New York? No, but that very 90s. Ninja kinda, right. Trauma, trauma Ville looking. So So our group has shown up at this coffee shop with David Norton, who was the landlord, it turns out of this artist was named Dick, right? Yes. And, and then we get a lot of exposition in the form of a discussion about how nobody's paying their rent, and nobody can afford to pay their rent because nobody's selling any art pieces. But if they could put on an art show. Yeah. So Oh. guy who's the landlord of a art commune? What does he think of this idea? He's not shocked. And I also don't understand why. Yeah, I don't know what his problem is. It's not like they're outside. I can understand if you happen to rent to a bunch of people who turned out to be artists. And then they weren't paying the rent. And you were like, y'all, but I'm like, No, you. It's an art car. We're very, we're going to do seems to very much like the people as artists, but doesn't want them to. Yeah. Yeah, whole, his whole character is so weird, because I guess they want you to think he's kind of a hard ass at the beginning. But he's clearly interested in art because he wants to buy art pieces. And I don't know, literally, nothing in this movie. Makes sense. Just just the normal day to day real world stuff doesn't make sense. Yes. So you're like, What am I watching? And the real problem is this. Why am I watching an eight minute scene where they are discussing the rent? This is all this is all stuff that can be discussed so much quicker. Jonathan Larson was taking copious notes. Also, along those lines, when that scene hit, they're all sitting around going. This is probably the best looking cast of an Amityville Horror film. Oh, yeah. I mean, this looks like the web. No, yeah. Very attractive. People are very attract because it's hard to get like 20 Something artists did you guys I just realized that it because I kept thinking of who this this keys after looked like and I couldn't quite place him but it just hit me Scott Valentine. You remember Scott Valentine from family ties? Oh, yeah. I think that was him. And then I looked it up. I was like, Oh, this is gonna fail. But it probably why it bugged me. So it's good. He's reminds me somebody. I looked it up and I saw Yeah, like, I've seen some of these things. But I don't recognize him for being you know, man standing at bar or whatever it was. But he's that generic 90s floppy haired attractive that you can you know, there was a lot of stars at the time. You could kind of put in as placeholders. It was the same it was the same dude. Yeah, I just want to make sure the the listener knows because you say floppy hair. Like it's a bad thing. This hair stands up before it flops. It's impressively quiet. Yeah. It would flow in the winds. Very nice. It's distractingly osseous. And it may be because you know, after 50 some odd years, I finally started to show a little bit thinning but I noticed hair on guys more in movies than I ever do before. Let me tell you, it's got it. Slow hair envy going. Oh, Not that kind of excitement. The hair is interesting. While staring out the window of the coffee shop sees this homeless guy crawling out of a box and it sets off some kind of weird thing with him. If you watch it more than I are more than once like I did the you realize he's getting a some kind of weird memory flashback. But any more than one very well, listen, it did. It did take me more than one. That's all right. You're probably playing on your phone. Well, that is part of the problem of a boring film. Yes, exactly. What did I miss? I don't care. Right? I'd never once rewound anything. So he goes outside to talk to the dude, the dude gives him a mirror. It's huge. Yeah, not like it's an mirror. It's not just huge. It is hideously ugly. Yes, it's got this bizarre, handmade, or hand concrete poured frame with a demon around it and everything and all I could think of was Okay, before we know the history of this mirror at all. We already know it came from the Amityville house because this is an Amityville movie. And then you start thinking about this mere hanging up there and that lamp from the third or fourth movie and then that clock God, like this house was the ugliest fucking house ever. Good lord. Great point. It's just like this furniture is very, very bad. It's almost I can almost see a young Mike Flanagan watching this. I could do better. Yes, absolutely. I want to do 100. Yeah. And then of course, my brain is always like, look, I understand what's going on with these films. And there was no idea that they were going to be making a franchise with your skin and movies. And but I'm like, How can we didn't see that mirror in the Amityville movie? And isn't there possibly a shot of a mirror like in Amityville? To that they could have said, Let's just reconstruct that one and tie it into the fucking franchise. It's an idea. I know, they couldn't have done that with the lamp. But they could have done that with a mirror. I've done it with a lamp too. There's got to be a scene with a lamp, there's at least one scene wouldn't look like that. But at least the mirror I will say if in the scale of what is scarier lamp or mirror. At least the mirror I can buy as like there are actual quote unquote cursed mirrors as a cursed object. There is a a precedence to that being something that could be some kind of demonic portal or haunted or curse. So they're at least like they're trying to trying so hard. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. All these are at least this, this particular trilogy of fire five, six, and seven, all take place in there, supposedly based on the evil escapes the John G. Jones book. Also, let's not forget that there was also a a confessional in the house at some point. Oh, that's right. Anyway. But so the idea of that book is that there are these cursed items that get auctioned off and then that causes problems for the owners and everything. And yet, none of these three things are the things that are talked about in the book, that it's not a clock, it's not a lamp or a miracle. So it's just like, What is going on? You guys had to pay him some kind of money to say it was based on this book. So why not use something from the fucking book. But it's based on a book book. We booked look at. Exactly. So he brings the mirror home and everything his girlfriend hates it, but Sookie sees it and she falls in love with it and asked if it's okay, she can borrow it because the commune has gotten the okay to plan their art show. Somewhere at some time it was approved. It was the was one of my favorite lines. It was like Don't be a dick, dick or whatever. Right? Well, unfortunately, the writing in this is so shoddy that all I could think was they named that guy dick so they could use that line. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's the 90s movies checklist. It's like, do we have a black character and an Asian character check check. Right? Or neither of them believes check. Do we call it the landlord who's kind of sketchy Dick check. Let's see. So then we have our first sex scene. sex scene on the floor in front of a space heater. I just want you guys to know. I think everybody knows I'm not opposed to sex in my movies or boobies. In fact, I'm a big fan of movies. But this is the blandest scene ever shot. It's so it mostly focused on his back hair, which is fine, but I was like of all the things you're just lingering cameras shots, can we highlight that with a nice pinpoint light? That hair just really just right as we get to the but it's gonna go Beautiful. All I could think of was there having sex on the floor in front of the space heater, and there's a perfectly fine bed there. I get that I'm an old man and that you know, bed. Hardwood floors, lower sex just doesn't interest me anymore. There's a point in your life. You reached an age where you're like, I'm probably not going to have sex on the floor ever again. And that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. I'm fine with that. But I think that the only reason this was done was to somehow make this sex look like it was fun. Because it's dead. It would have been even more boring. At least we had the orange light of the space heater. Atmospheric Yeah. ambiance. Yeah, at one point later in the film, she, like turns up the space heater and she's cold. And I was like, Oh, little call back to the original. George Lutz couldn't get warm. And then I thought not haunted at all. You guys. I have lived in a space like this. Those windows are not gonna allow you to ever get warm. Yeah, that space heaters not gonna help. That's just practical onset heating. Yeah. Especially if it's concrete in any way like I live in a concrete building will it's just, it's just cold. That's the default. Is your building haunted? Ah, my haunted doll is haunted. So I have brought the haunting into my building. Now what can we just realize I'm sure we had gotten to know each other a little better earlier because when I moved out of my place, I decided to toss away a haunted cosmetic case that I had bought. And the story behind that is the the antique store down the road had in their window, haunted cosmetic case, a little note on it with this old cosmetic case. And it said no returns, cats ferret all this stuff. So I walked in and I said, Can I can I see the haunted cosmetic case? And the lady was like, okay, and she brings it to me. I'm like, All right, yeah, I'm taking it. She's like, you're gonna buy this? Like, yes, yeah. And she said, it's haunted. Cool. I was like, this is the only reason I'm buying it. I don't need an old cosmetic case. Although coming soon to the next Amity film franchise is going to be cosmetic. Eric pointed out something once I got it, because we were looking at it. And he's like, anything bad yet? And I was like, No, I mean, nothing worse than everything else going on in my life. But he opened it up. And he was like, cats fear everything. First of all, yes, but this thing smelled funny. I know why cats don't like this the same. smells funny. Got funky. Yeah. So but because nothing ever happened with me with it. I ended up just tossing it. Yeah. And I would have loved to donate it to you. And had you do my little do my little tests? Yeah, it's my daughter has actually pulled some stuff. So yeah. Like she's more active in the wintertime. And it's not as bad now as when I first got her and she liked turn the stove on one. So that was annoying. We had a talk about that we'd have very serious conversation about that. When I came home and the stove was on and I hadn't cooked for a week. And my cat is smart. She's not that smart. But stuff sometimes flies off my shelves late at night. So wake up in something's like food. Like Millie, for Christ's sakes, I'm sleeping. And she'll turn the TV on at 3am and then like escalate the volume on it. Why? Why do you know what's the doll and not something else in the place? I mean, as far as I know, it's the only haunted object in my place. And all of this stuff started after I acquired it. It was sent to me by a friend of mine, who I went to college with who when her grandmother died, and she inherited a bunch of grandmother stuff, including this doll. And she started noticing just weird stuff similar like things that fall off the shelf. The doll apparently she said, I've never had this happen, but she said the doll would change where it was located. Nice. Yeah, exactly. And and she was just like, fuck that noise. And was ready to chuck it before she did that she you know, called me and she's like, do you want this thing? And I was like, Absolutely, I don't get it. Now. We have a haunted doll collection at spooked. So I figured well, if anything is if it's a little too weird or a little too aggressive. We'll take her to spooked and she can live with all the other haunted dolls and make haunted doll friends. So you go. But yeah, so do you know the history of why it's haunted? What I'm unclear of is if she's haunted by the grandmother, or if she was haunted before. And that's the thing that my friend can't help make. Uh, she's she talked to her mom to like, Did grandma ever mentioned anything weird with the doll? Nothing. So I don't No, I know that that she had the doll for a long time dolls from the 50s. So it could have even been heard from when she was a kid. Okay, and if it was that could be grandma has started haunting the doll. But the haunting, it's so weird. Like, she gets kind of petty if you don't acknowledge her because I'll bring into my classes, sometimes the kids get they get a kick out of a haunted doll. So I'm like, okay, you know, if you guys are good, I'll bring in my haunted doll. Or if you're bad, I'll bring in my haunted don't either or, and she's more chill when she's either being referred to sometimes when we're recording our podcast, we'll talk about Milly, or somebody's over and I'm talking about her or if I bring her places, she tends to stay much more like stuff doesn't happen. But as soon as a certain amount of time goes by, and I have not acknowledged her, that's when stuff really starts to like, the stove turns on or she's flinging things off the shelves, or the cats just start staring at a shelf she can't see. And I'm like, why are you doing this? So to me, that's more like a kid. And not something you know, I don't know, maybe an old lady would do that. My grandma does some stuff. Sometimes I'm like, Ah, but I wish I knew the origin of of where the doll came from outside of her grandmother. Like, was it something that belonged to her grandmother always? Or Did grandma get it and whoever she got it from? It was already haunted. And that outside of suddenly coming across grandma's diary, I'm not sure if we're gonna have an answer. How do you feel? And you can absolutely say no? Sure. How do you feel about sending us a picture that that we can post when this episode goes live so people can see what I'm talking about? Absolutely. I've got pictures of a runner. During the pandemic. I was taking a picture of her every day because I was noticing stuff on the shelf moving okay. And no one else was obviously coming into my apartment and I lived by myself. So I started taking pictures so I could track if something moved. So I got a ton of pictures on my phone for very cool. Yeah. All right. That's cool. All of that so much more interesting than this movie. Very, very. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, so Sookie is ex boyfriend shows up when she's gone. Remember how he couldn't get into the place at all? When we first met? He seems to have no problem maybe right inside doors open and then becomes the first victim of the mirror in a way I'm not quite sure how it works death by very shallow cuts. Very shallow cuts Yeah, death of 1000 cuts or whatever that is. Anyway, guys, and that's the first time we see the Amityville reflection in the mirror. Yeah. Scary. No, wait. It's not skipped. But I will say I thought there was some cool lighting stuff where I was like this is super low budget and doesn't have a whole lot going on for it. But again, they were doing some things real in in camera practical. And I appreciate in camera practical effects. So I was like, if if this was a filmmakers first film in college, I would be like good for you guys, for you. Well, you bring up a good point. And obviously these films don't deserve like an oral history interview with all the people involved. They probably don't even deserve the amount of effort we are putting into them. But this is one of those films that makes me feel like started off as a haunted mirror story and there was turned into an Amityville Horror Steiger because that's if it was just a flat haunted mirror movie. Yeah, I think I'd have a little bit more of a cult following or knowledge but as it Amityville, it's just weird. Yeah, yes, very odd. But you take out any reference to Amityville. The story doesn't change. No, it doesn't. Even the murder in the Amityville house is not the murder which is a whole other thing. I have feelings about that first save go to fail murders. I'm sure we'll get there. Yeah. After after the ex boyfriend dies, Terry O'Quinn suddenly shows up and I was like, oh, fuck yeah. I forgot what he looked like young and with hair. Doing his very best inspectors of air to you know, I fucking love him. But even he cannot drag us out of how boring is filming. But he's got a really good suspicious look. Yeah, he this is post stepfather. So you're, you know you're kind of waiting for him to do something. I was hoping I was like, if this was a crossover between stepfather and Amityville oh my god how good would that be stepfather meets Amityville pretending to be a cop Yes, I'm so Arafat movie. Okay, so then we get into the first dream sequence. So keys is having dreams about the Amityville house. It is a very comfy Using dream because prior to this, we thought that the fails were the people who were murdered in the house. But his recurring dream is going to start showing us that there were people who were murdered about 10 years earlier than that. Also this house, the layout of this house looks nothing like the house that we have seen. There's just no effort to tie this in. And it makes me even wonder if not, was this a script that got turned? Was this a movie that they went and reshot some scenes and started adding in Amityville? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, kinda, and this is not a deep regret, but kind of makes me regret that I didn't get the vinegar syndrome did a boxset of these three movies. And they do have extras. They've got interviews, and they've got stuff like that. So there might be that out there. But you know what, I'm okay, if I never will. We'll do some special edition episodes and come back in 10 years, look at the stuff that's the mirror having tasted blood starts working on Sookie immediately afterward, but instead of killing her, it inspires her. That's fair. Yay, to start painting. A lot. Yeah, in a very short amount of time, one night to pair up. Okay, I've got a side note written down here. Okay. Is there anything worse than a movie about photographers or painters or musicians or sculptors or any kind of artists, but when we see their art, it's not very good. And then inevitably, we see a change in their art, and it's supposed to show us that they are somehow magically better than they were when we first saw it. But the art that they have used in this film is still not very good. Or sometimes worse. Yeah, you're like you like that demon? is a really shitty Yeah. Even he can't make uncomfortable art or something. And you feel a little gaslit because you're like, I'm supposed to think this is good. Yeah. You live supposedly, in a place you can't pay the rent, right? This is why Dick doesn't want them to have an art show. Like he's just like, Y'all are so pretty. You're so pretty. I'm I'm enjoying that. But I'm don't show other people your art. This is an Artist's Loft. Yeah, you will ruin that. Yeah, the one I said when it works, it's awesome. There's like two movies where the art is really really fucking good. I was trying to think of something like that. And I came up with I think it's called like the devil's playground or Devil's candy or something like that. I thought the art room not necessarily the art was good, but it was so disturbing looking at I thought it really served the film. Oh, very interesting and stuff. So yeah, and normally when art gets destroyed in a movie, it really bothers me. All right, this is like Clive Barker art as done by children. So that's that was what I kept thinking about. Oh, I think probably Candyman was the other one that I thought the art was really good. Yeah. The bit you said Clive Barker, because Clive Barker does art that uncomfortable look at I was like, Okay, I feel like that's what they were trying to go for with this kind of stuff. But if that's the case, I would have asked the artists to just look at a bunch of Clive's art and and recreate it. Yeah, absolutely. I did actually, you know, five in the morning or whatever, start to try to find more about this artist. Work I guess we're not the only ones that didn't go too deeply into it. I was curious if it was an artist they hired if set director or if it was Well, part of the problem is the art doesn't even look like it was made from piece to piece by the same person. No. That's probably why they that's how she got all of them done in one night. Exactly. She was actually going out back with her wallet being like alright, you Paint me a Picture you Paint me a Picture. Doesn't that be good? Just look kind of creepy. Here I've got a note about keys and his girlfriend taking the walk through the park and he admits something about his family to her that he didn't know his dad always stuff and, and she wants to push the relationship forward. And he's a dude who isn't good at sharing emotions. I wrote down here he is a struggling artist with amazing hair. And I can tell you from experience that that goes a long way with subjects. That's That's true. That's a truth. How would you know? He tells you that he never met his father and she tells him that she feels like an idiot because she was pushing him to go to the next level. And she hardly knew him at all. And I all of this just felt like a very strange scene to me. Yes. Yes. It's like one of those low budget movies where you walk in and suddenly everybody's at a 10 You know, yelling at each other crazy. This was an emotional version of that where it's like, suddenly we're talking about the deepest, most emotional things of our as we gently walk through this park taking pictures. Or did that come? I kept thinking were they sharing a set with a soap opera and a script from the soap into theirs for the day. And they just went with it. They're like Greg, this is what we're supposed to be doing. Meanwhile, on On days of our lives, there's an episode where they've suddenly got a haunted mirror for one day. There, they had a whole storyline of Marlena being possessed by the devil. So it would not be the weirdest thing for our lives is every time it's just gonna say Did it happen in 1994? It was the 90s Yeah, it was the 90s there was a map and it has been so good a writer found that one page ago I can get 45 episodes this stretch that shit for like six months. So David Dalton shows up at Sookie department and she shows him all of her new art that she apparently painted one night, which makes her very horny. That's why she was dressing the way she was. I don't know if she's horny or she's just sexy now. She's wearing overalls with no bra. And or shirt, just overall just overall. But it was very like, I don't know, embrace of the vampire something vibe. Like, wow. You're gonna say that it's not a movie that gets referenced frequently. But I I do know that one. Yes. But that scene I was getting that kind of like the you know, the the photographer in that scene with Alyssa Milano being all like, hey, and then how many times have you seen embrace of the vampire? Or how recently because I remember seeing it once you went on five years ago, and I can't place the scene you're talking about any scene in one of the light lesbian scenes that's in that movie. I see seen way too many lesbian scenes. KYV together after a while. Yes, yes. Oh. So So notton and Sookie get a little freaky in front of the mirror. And this sex scene last literally four seconds and it is somehow way sexier than the original sexy. The sexy has shot during the day. It's there's boobs in this one sort of. I mean, we see the passing kind of Yeah, well, there's boobs in the first one to it. Mostly it's back here. I like I was looking through some notes on this like other people's reviews of it and one of the guys reviews was so the director feels like the passing showing of a Nippo is the same as having nudity. Well, and like I guess it is technically you know what, maybe that made it sexier to me that it was just a glimpse or something but I was like, Okay, this SEC scene works. Is this the same director? What? What happened? Did they have a little more time for setup or something? They still have that soap opera script, they were pulling notes. Like what can we Oh, hey. Earlier Okay. Of course, the coitus is interrupted this by Terry O'Quinn. And he shows up to ask her to sign the statement from last night, which seems weird. Wouldn't they have them sign the statement right after they made the statement? One would think you'd think Yeah. This is I don't know. Did I say this? Could be what? It's been 24 hours. Yeah, it's I told you this. This looks mostly correct. This is my favorite moment about in that scene, though, is when he's like is keys here. And she just yells right and the look then the detective gives her as such the like, look, my mom used to give me what I would call my brother. Get your brother for dinner. Yeah, did he did have a look like I could have done that. Thank you. She also outs David not hiding comes out with his shirt off. I don't I don't get what any of this scene means or because it means nothing. It means nothing later on in the movie even where you're like, oh, will he be suspected for Suki? his eventual death? No, no, not really. He is the one who finds her because the friction between him and his wife slash girlfriend? No, not really. Not really. Maybe a nudge towards it? Yeah, yeah. So anyway, later that night, Sookie is confronted by her demons or demons have all been painted on the cool hanging art that she has. And apparently, they come to life and disappear from the art, which is kind of a neat thing that never shows up again and makes no sense. And so there's no reason for it to be here at all. Just like every scene in this movie is just a scene of something that happens that that will not matter towards anything else in the movie. As a writer that frustrated I kept getting distracted by the hanging nooses, right, which is weird there. Well, she's an artist. And I feel like I feel like this is display. You know, the art is being displayed and so the nooses sit there too. And obviously, she's troubled. Sure she's got some issues. Ah, and so the nooses are there to ice fucka I'm putting way more by really putting more thought she had a pulley system so she can make very large art put her foot in, pulled herself up to the top. Sure, sure. At this point, I am thinking that there's kind of a neat story somewhere in this movie, the demons coming out of the paintings and all that stuff. This is a $1.5 million movie. What do you think David not gets for his small part? A good chunk of it. I'm guessing anywhere from 375 to 500,000 Probably for a week's worth of work. So now you've got a million bucks to pay some other actors who you know, charge a little bit Terrio Quinn's getting not less than 150 Yeah, so then you're like well, what have we got left to spend on the movie? The movie directors taking a chunk the artwork you know somebody so I think that space yeah cool off space. Yeah. So okay, I'd really love to see and above the line budget on this though Yeah. What was leftover Yeah, I mean overall, like you said to begin with this was better than the first one and I think part of or the of the series like that because it felt like there could be something more going on and he kept okay maybe they're building something now they're throwing that one away by the Angelique Okay, well damn it. Yeah, it's just a mishmash of stuff. So in keys next stream we see that the mayor was hanging in the dining room of the Amityville house this is not a good mirror for a dining room no demon head on the top of it maybe you're maybe a basement or if you're kind of a real golf and you built your whole share house around that Sure. Well also it's you know if you do the math that the the murder is taking place in is like 66 And can you imagine somebody in 66 Hanging something like this Sammy Davis Jr. Maybe? He was Ruby, but the family we see eating a Thanksgiving dinner No, definitely not. Yeah, I write down here this is really gonna throw off your Fung Shui and it doesn't really matter because the dining room seems to be smaller than Ted Kaczynski is eight by eight check it they have a table that fills up this room and the room is not big people at the table and for you seats 12. Car here are the and all the filled with all these drawers dresser tour halls looking. What the hell is this room? Well, we have five bedrooms and no dining room. So make it you know, make it work. I've got a note here that says keys and girlfriend are asked to come and identify a body and then I've got a side note. So they're driving in the dark. There are two driving in the dark scenes, Eric. Quite honestly, none of them look even as good as our driving at night seat in our film. And I'm trying to figure out how they couldn't do with $1.5 million. What we did with 27,000 It's so bad. Our driving at night scene was like shockingly good. Yeah. It worked so well. It was like Oh, all right. And it was to make lights on a stick. So yeah, we had to get a grip just basically turning a light that rotated above the car and yeah, that and then and then there was somebody in black with two mag lights as the car behind them you know and totally sells it. This looks like somebody is sitting in a room and in a car or part of a car. Yeah, they're both kind of driving like this. There's a lot of play in the steering wheel and all the bounce on the train act constantly almost turning left and right. Take a whole semester that a college if you go to school for drama. So we think that the body they're going to identify Sookie, but it turns out to be the homeless man who gave keys the mirror. But why? Why? Because the dude had keys name and address in his pocket. Also, I can't figure out the wounds on his chest. How did he die? I don't know. After thought of the demon from the mirror, oh shit, I gotta get rid of this guy. I gotta I gotta close the loop here. I gotta I gotta clean up my mess. He's got like two rectangular bloody rectangles on his sternum. And I was like, Okay, well, I can't wait to figure out what this is. Not a goddamn thing. No, nothing. Nothing. No. Also, mandatory trope of corner eating. Oh my god. let that one go, man. And they were like, well, we gotta have somebody eating You know who's got some Surfrider something here? I have an apple. Yeah, great. Sure. Yeah. Okay, the next morning landlord goes in to talk to Sookie and finds her hanged body. I I'm looking at this and I was trying to even on the third viewing I'm trying to figure out I think there's something to be said here about the fact that she hung all her art from the ceiling and she was also hanging from the ceiling. But the good the movie isn't good enough for me to make any of those kinds of comparisons, especially on two bottles of bubbles. Oh, I forgot about that. My notes are reminding me a lot of what that night was like that make the movie better. Made the night better. Okay. So, let's see detective Terrio Quinn is starting to get a little suspicious of the deaths of surrounding this dude. And keys ends up back with a mirror in his place and when he flips it over, he notices a name scratched into the bottom of the frame. Bronner. This is not a great evil, sloped men is way evil. And because I put a lot of thought into my character names, I assume everyone else does. So I looked this up the name Bronner means jovial and loves to talk. So fuck these writers. Oh my god. Let's go with Paul van. Carl's car Oh, shit, instead of that, Dwayne. can't even do that that'll scarier that we live in a world with Dwayne has become a cool name. That's true. Okay, so Keith finds out that the homeless guy's name was Bronner that the guy went crazy and killed his family in the Amityville house. I have notes on this because I figured this out even after the third viewing, but before we get to that, Lin che shows up in the film. Yes. She is the shining moment in this film. Her scene is so good. Yeah, but it's nothing special. It's just she makes it special. Because she's having a good time making this movie. She probably was like paying rent today. The wonderful flirtatious stuff she was doing. She just took interest. She took nothing lines and made something interesting. Absolutely. She did. And she plays the nurse who is telling keys about Bronner. I also love that she just lets keys wander through the hospital lounge. She's like have a good time. Be careful. We have no insurance. Yeah, I was figuring she was just like the caretaker for a closed the clothes building. He walks out the door. There's somebody sitting in the hall. Like what the hell yeah, have fun. I was just waiting for her to then like open her door and pull like her flask out. Because I was like that would explain her jovial nature throughout this entire scene. That would have been so amazing. Maybe she even brought that to the director and he was like, hey, Lynn, no one's gonna buy that and watch my series movie here. Pull back and the dead nurses underneath. Oh, God see with death. Look at this. we brainstorm too much better. Already. Yep. And it was the best thing. So because of that he is able to have a memory flashback of him as a small boy with his mom being in the hospital to visit somebody. And then he has a hallucination of himself as Broner going to visit his wife and kid which is his mom. Right? So the movie is so fucking complicated, especially this two bottles of bubbles. And the scene shows why he spent so much time on his hair because of the haircut his mom gave him Oh, so tragic. so tragic. Well, it was it took me a while because of that hair. I was like couldn't they style this kid's hair? Awesome. So we knew it was the same kid and the relationship between their appearances Yeah, no, no, the father, mother and son. None of them look alike. I have a note here that says all this stuff becomes very apparent in a second viewing but it's all shot so poorly that you can easily miss it on a first viewing. If you're on Amazon ordering Kendall Jenner's new Teeth Whitening Pen oh we need video now. Those are some wait shoppers I have to make a note of that Kendall Jenner. So then he kills his wife slash his mom during the visit in front of his kids slash him. He tells her how crappy are the orderlies at this fast man it took a while. Yeah, he's such a delayed reaction. There's like oh, hey, I would make it hurt. I also felt like the writers at this point are like we could probably tell this a little bit better, but slug our view. But why should we? I've already spent all the money from this frickin script. Yeah. super frustrating. So Then Kees confronts detective Terry O'Quinn in front of the cemetery gates at night for no reason about knowing that Bronner was his father, it's almost a good scene. So because they're both acting pretty strongly in it, but the dialogue and the idea of the scene is so fucking stupid. Yes, that I was just getting angry and the editing of it it's shot in a very bland, you know, angle, angle angle. There's never a two shot of the two of them. There's not even an over the shoulder or anything like that cool reveal of what the plaque says or something. Oh, here's the shot of it. Yeah. Oh, all right. Yeah, but also it's like, why here? Why is this scene here? Especially since the next shot is in keys. apartment with oakwyn and everything. All of this could have been there. No point makes sense. I took a cabinet near me right home. Yeah. That's cool. All right. So, uh, Quinn, Phil's keys I N on who his dad was, and I still don't quite get it. So this is where I'm going to need to people who are probably telling me what's going on daily. A lot of me. Did his dad kill his family at Thanksgiving. Yes. Why wasn't the mom and the kid there at Thanksgiving with the family? I was. I was thinking that he was just seeing what the what haunted the mirror? Explain. Exactly. That's the hard part. Yeah. That the the the killing was happened in the house. And the demon was then given to the mirror. Sure. And the dad at some point, never seen on the screen, acquired the mirror, which turned him crazy. And he kept it until he was through the apparently the he went through the mental institute. World, murdered his wife then got out and became homeless all while keeping the mirror. So that you go, Well, okay, so I'm pleased to say that I picked something you missed. Oh, good. Because that's his dad killing the family. Yeah, it says Dad killing the family. But if she she was the girlfriends, I thought that because he was young when he killed the family. So he was having an affair with a woman he killed in the institute. No. So so. At least if I was if I was reading this correctly, is that they were they were deliberately at least to me, they were deliberately mimicking the DeFazio murders. Because I don't know there was a rice giving killing in 1966 or something. I think I looked up. There was a killing similar to what is shown in the movie. In the house. I don't know if it was in the house. That's the part that was weird. I don't think it was in the house. It was like the way it was written. It's the little article I read whoever wrote it didn't seem to want to say it was fair, but there's like a spike in the house that would have lent a lot more credence to the Lutz's story. Yeah, I feel like that would have come up in my research when I was, but no, I he so he was like, yeah, like late teenager or something. And he killed his family. But then I thought, like girlfriend was pregnant or girlfriend was. And so he was taken away to the institution because he was judged insane. And she was visiting with their son. And then he went cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs again and killed, his wife, girlfriend, whatever. And he watched his dad do that. But when he was watching the killings happening at Thanksgiving, that that was him seeing through his dad's eyes because he kept that becomes a thing that happens throughout the rest. That's my take. So that's my take also, except that it doesn't make too much sense that he's like an eight year old kid coming to visit his father for what the first time in an insane asylum. I mean, to be fair, what's the right age to say, Son, I'm going to tell you the truth about your father. Oh, well, I mean, I'd say that if you're going to wait till eight, you should probably wait till 12 You're not wrong. But it? I mean, if we're looking for logic in this movie, Busta another bottle of something as well, and also, to your point, I guess, maybe he's, maybe he's been told earlier, because this is all a memory that he's getting back. Right. So maybe he just hasn't gotten back in earlier memory. Yeah, but I still don't. My thing was that I thought the I was confused. I thought that the murder happened. And then shortly thereafter, Mom and son go to visit him, which would mean that son had been around. Maybe she took him for maybe they were on a break and she took him for dinner at her family's house and that sent him into a rage. And so he shot his own family. Took the mirror off the wall and then There's nothing as a homeless man living across the building because that's what we do find out that was his dad the homeless man and the mirror was in the house because we saw that and that's all he wanted when everything was auctioned off was that mirror yeah so apparently the mirror had taken him over something made him do this and but he got enough money to get it and that's why he ended up on the street I got the mirror though. I'm telling you that mirror shows up and house nobody's bidding there's no bidding war on that. $10 good yes. Sold. dirty sock Great. I'll take it Yeah. I have this note about the apartment being cold and having to turn up space heater and it's never addressed again and that there's nothing supernatural happening but then or is there because Kim did you know I had a dude in my cool old apartments die next to me and I saw I had to call it in because Oh, last night it was starting to smell. Oh yeah, I was worried about my neighbor actually. Like the lady just disappeared. And he had his both of his blinds were were left wide open. But you couldn't see him because it was really dark. And normally he closes everything up. So we're gonna have a Kelly thing. But this morning, actually, literally, by in the blinds are now up and stuff so something's happened. So it's like, Well, I hope it's that he's alive. And not that somebody finally discovered that I had a neighbor during the heatwave couple years ago. In my building, it was not my next door it was the one after so two apartments down from mine and he died during the heatwave. But he had a dog so his dog walker found them the next day so there was never a never got to the point of smelling I don't know if you remember Eric that happened during that heat wave also. You found out faster than you might have otherwise well, not fast enough. The the landlord did decide to share with me that he'd pretty much liquefied by the time they Oh, oh. Oh, oh, yeah. Very CSI. Good. Good times. Okay, back to less interesting things. This movie. Yeah, it's hard to stay on point on this one. So keys now is inspired to create new art while the mirrors in his place. This seems to be the mirrors mo it gives you a bunch of great ideas that makes you kill yourself. Great. I like that you said that because I wrote down here except the ideas really aren't that great. Original house was fashion. It was a interior decorator. Theater this because the idea he gets us he wants to make some kind of bizarre Thanksgiving dinner scene with cut out pictures of his photography that he's going to blow up to full size. We get a scene of him developing film and apparently being frustrated by all that because he keeps crumpling up the photographs and throwing them away. When we see the finished product, we're supposed to think it is amazing. It is a bunch of life sized photographs of people with no faces. Spoiler. You haven't seen this film? It is not amazing. It's quite bad. Yeah, that was whole setup. I mean, performance art is weird enough as it is. But at least it should be interestingly. This is like he's gonna like squirt them with a squirt gun with blood Supersoaker yay. The TV setup by the other art stuff. We need to get a shot coming here somehow Yes, but it's it's the kind of thing that like I mean, this is how you know that there was no research done that's the kind of thing that non artistic people feel like is yes artistic. It's it's performative of like, this is gonna look so deep. No, it's no different to the writer. This has gone on to produce the Ready Player One and gravity he's listened to this right now gone. How dare you? very hurtful. I am an artist. If you listen to this, reach out. We have scripts. We have ideas. We have scripts. These are because we got some really good scripts. One of the frustrating notes I have here is we find out the faces of all the photographs have been removed because they won't develop correctly when he shows his girlfriend what's going on with the faces the developers demons or something like that. This machine does. Well, this is not a horrible throwback, Eric, if you remember to Amityville three, where the photos wouldn't develop either as Ryan had that stuff except they don't know fucking tie to it at all. So it gets immediately dismissed and disappear immediately dropped. Like every fucking scene in this movie is just like, that was creepy. Let's never speak of it never talked again. It'd be so you're like you guys are so close. You're so good. Oh, the whole time we get a final dream sequence where keys is revealed in the mirror as the person who was killed the family and I was like, did was, Is this a reveal? Was anyone surprised? This is what we were doing okay, okay, so I've got more notes. So I was a little tipsy. I say I am so fucking confused about what's going on. Please tell me who was killed at the Thanksgiving dinner. Keys tells his girlfriend he can't remember any of it because he wasn't born yet. Yeah, but everyone was killed there. So what the fuck? Where was his mom then? And if he wasn't born yet, and if his dad killed his family there, his mom had sex with him after he was in prison. I think she was that was I think that was why I had in my head that she was pregnant with him that they were young, like, like, like, he was like a prom. That baby or something. So she was pregnant with him. He kills his family. And then she's like, Oh, shit. I'm gonna give birth to the baby. The son of a killer man. And we're back to him having an affair. But he was shot. She was pregnant when killed and the T showed up. She but she wasn't there. She was never Yeah. So that he she was just pregnant. And because he was he was he was supposed to be like a teenager or something when he did the murders. Are you going back to the failure? They were doing that intentionally to kind of mimic the failed murders. That he I guess we don't ever really see. Yeah, I mean, I almost wanted to say I need more story. What I need is less story in here. This is too much for this kind of movie. They can't keep track of the story that they're putting out there. Okay. Night of the show. Eric, like you said, we see one of the other artists sculptures. It's a loaded rifle hooked to a TV and a timer and a chair in front of it. It's literally Chekhov's gun. Except that it was supposed to show up to fucking acts ago. If anybody had even mentioned once that there was a gun in the commune that would be something but it shows up here and then it is used here. Yeah, I think I've got a note earlier here where somebody got used a knife for one of the kids like Well, that's oddly on Amityville. Ze absolutely killed with a knife by a noose. Right. Right. People start showing up to view the art critics I guess. Drunks off the street. dressed too nicely would have been great though. We'd seen one of them like like the homeless guy. That would have tied it all back in and he brought the umbrella that was his artless that would have been I'm offering this as part of it. So he's starts going a little nutty, but he can feel himself going nutty so he leaves a message for Terry O'Quinn. If only he'd gotten with well I guess he made it in time he did he get just just your feed ordered one more thing a Chinese food never would have all been over he kind of makes it in time because prior to showing up to the evil of the mirror takes over the building's fuse box sure and electric use David not which is only important at the end. Keys are pieces finally revealed to us there will be no photo standees but apparently live actors Yeah. And he is then sucked into a mirror dimension of the hospital where he sees all of his dead friends and has to confront his father. I'm telling you guys this has some neat ideas and a budget that absolutely cannot no cannot execute them because I liked the idea that he has sucked into a mirror dimension Yeah and we've seen that done very well and like Stranger Things and stuff now and so there's there's there's material to be mined here. Yeah, but these writers are not strong enough the budget is not big enough it's a it's a real bummer anything on the mirror world I guess I like there was moments with the the lighting the some of the cinematography throughout where I was just like oh, if y'all had a little bit more this this could have like it's their stuff their their stuff being done there's some artistic choices being made. And I feel like I looked the cinematographer up and they're like a person or they're Yeah, they like no they like they've gone on to do some stuff. Yeah, they to do some some legitimate like very good things. So you like you see some of what could have been, which makes it so much worse because they're just, oh, I wish you could have done anything else or cut some of it to I don't know it. It's such a The awesome bit of the 90s Like, I wish I could show it as an example. So my students have like, do you want to know what the 90s were here? Go nuts. 90s right there. There's a kind of cool scene in there where David notton pushes his face up against the glass, and he's got some horribly burned scar makeup on everything and for a moment, and he's like acting, he's having a good time. Oh, and I thought he was like, you know, the last thing I was in that had cool makeup effects was 12 years ago, and I would love to do something like that again. And it's, it's probably the best makeup in the movie. Because when he's execute or when he's electrocuted, Sookie shows up and we get to see a demon version of her hair there. I was like, Okay, there's some craft here. There's, there's, there's solid ideas, there's some solid things happening. The actors are all given it their gut, you know, just giving it their all. It had the potential. And then it didn't. It's one of those things where I'm sure if you talk to the director, and Eric, you know how this goes on film. And the director is like, I had amazing shots set up and then the cinematographer comes in and says How long do I have to set this up? You got 40 minutes? He's like, well, then this is what you're going to get. Yeah, so a baby that's what happened. I don't know. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. Keys is released back into the real world he thinks about killing himself but instead goes on a killing spree in the studio except all he's doing is killing the food that is on his art piece and somehow not hitting any he is we've never known anything about him but he is apparently a crack shot damn good shot. The cops finally show up and apparently they're much more lenient than present day police aiming and firing the rifle they continue to not shoot him yeah, they're just like let's see how this plays out. I want to see where this goes before we make any assumptions. Do you see any blood then shoot him otherwise? Because it's art guys this could just be this might just be part of it. It's art it's literally people sitting around a table filled with food and he shooting the food but that means he is shooting right at the people at the table and the cops are standing behind him going phrase drop it we really mean it this time. Come on. Don't make a scene again. Let him go through this is a psychology kind of moment for him he needs to break through. He's working through something real hard trauma, all that hair trauma guys all that trauma. And then finally the power of love compels him or something because his girlfriend gives him the old look at me Look at me. And it kills the mirror instead. Is he arrested for discharging a weapon in a public space app so fucking hailed as a genius artist the final line is Terry O'Quinn saying big mistake is seven years bad luck and that he kind of gets a smile in his eye. You're like I feel like this is not in the script. And somebody at the end said wait a second hold on you guys I have a great fucking idea I got something for the blooper reel here but you guys are cracking up at it but you put it in the fucking movie and it remains we can assume they all live happily ever after because the credits roll however in a couple of days there's going to be a very bad smell coming from the basement where the fuse box is built down there and five David not didn't electrified and burned Body which is never addressed again and there. The power just well magically comes back right foot demons demon did it that's why they didn't care what happened. No power came back on everything's good. Kim at the end of these things we'd like to just sit and chat for a minute and I like to ask the question. Did we like this movie? Oh like is such a strong word. Did I like it better than the lamp movie? Yes, because I recently watched the lamp one and and if my bar is What's scarier a lamp or a mirror? The mirror wins. But yeah, it there was moments I would get engaged but then there'd be these whole stretches where I'm like I'm trying real hard to stay invested in this movie. And I am failing. I am felt like I need to pay attention to this but like I can also just look out the window and that's probably more interesting so it was it was kind of dull which was frustrating because there there's moments have like I thought Sookie is death scene was actually really interesting. Even if the art was she the death scene itself how it all played out. There was these there was ideas that were really cool. But I felt like they were throwing all of these ideas at the wall. And rather than expanding and using the gym, they just kind of like, let's just keep it all and not really go anywhere with any of them. So is it the worst Amityville movie I've ever seen? Absolutely not. Um, is it a GREAT movie? Absolutely Nice. So that's kind of where I stand. I kind of almost feel like for the rest of the Amityville series, I need to get up at 430 in the morning and watch them. Because I had a lot more fun watching this one, then the last three or four. Wow. And not because it was good, is because I was just going with, yeah, I didn't have my phone. I just went with as weird as the 90s movie. And was fine with it. It was not everything we've said was true. It didn't work. It doesn't follow through on any of its ideas, but it's just like, it's kind of cool, man. I think I wished I was drunker. I was like, I wish I was drinking during this and I watched it before I had to go do a tourist. I was like, dammit, I can't. I can't be dragged maybe a little but I can. Drinking during only four shots. Only four shots. I'll be fine. I'll match the rest of Pioneer Square. But I sort of wish I was a little bit under the influence of something. I could see that. I was a lot under the influence. And I wish I was drunker. Yes. I will. I will disagree with you. I don't think this is anywhere near the quality of the lamp movie. The lamp movie is bad, but I have far more entertaining. There was stuff going on in that film that made me laugh and made me interested and in this film, I've I was like, Okay, this is better than the last one. The Amityville curse, but it's not it I didn't find it to be as engaging as many of the other ones and I think that lamp one is better than the original movie quite honestly. So if I say this is better. This is one of the ones I don't feel is better than the original film. The lamp one I didn't think was better. I thought it was more entertaining because it was so bad. But it's more entertaining to watch. And this one this one was so close is like our couple five rewrites of the scripts away from being maybe a decent film. Yeah, I'll tell you which made it more frustrating to watch than entertaining. I'll take me a patty Duke over a David not and that's true. That is true. And then I started thinking I was just saying in this episode that was this a movie that started out as something other than an Amityville movie. Except it's the same writers of the evil escapes and something else. The clock one, it's about time. So it's, it's clearly supposed to be in Amityville movie. I don't know. I feel like maybe. Yeah, without getting an oral history. We can't tell but who comes to them and says, All right, you guys have $200,000 We need a script by Wednesday. Monday. It does have the feel of an early draft. It feels like one of the first drafts of a script where you're like, Okay, there's some stuff here. Now let's you know, write another draft or like no time just just take it, take it and roll with it. Like, okay, I have very little trivia on this one. It is inspired by the book like the last couple were Amityville The evil escapes by John G. Jones. This movie acts as the third in a trilogy of films based on the evil escapes. And interestingly, the Ark commune is the same exterior building as Paddy's Pub from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I did have a note here on the DP, the cinematographer there for you to put down. He'd go on is Wally Pfister would go on to direct work with Christopher Nolan on the prestige SSDP as an Academy Award winning turn inception. Wow. So you know, he rose, he learned he learned? Yes. But you know, we forgot the tagline which is they're fascinating. There's two might be three but terror has a reflection of its own. And Terra haves and reflection all it's all come out I feel like there could have been a better tagline. Yeah, probably. As always, I like to pull out a review of my favorite reviewer amazon.com John Jacob Taylor. John J. Taylor one says this is a great horror film. It is very underrated it is not a 3.6 it is better than Amityville. Better than Amityville. To the possession. It is better than Amityville. Three the demon. It is better than Amityville. For the evil escapes. The Amityville curse is better. Amityville, it's about time is also better. The Amityville dollhouse is also better. Amityville. 2005 is also better. This movie has a great storyline. It is the seventh Amityville movie it has great acting. It also has great special effects. I give it nine out of 10 it is no 3.6 People do not like this movie because it is a sequel. See this movie. It is a great movie. I want to see like this guy's notebook or whatever he's got where he's reading all these things like I did not a deep dive on him. Although I did try to stalk him on Facebook. I couldn't figure out which John Jacob Taylor he was. But he's got like 1000 reviews on Amazon and oil of the Amityville movies. So I mean, he listed a good chunk of them, right. Yeah, and he's not afraid to tell you which one this is better than one. This is not better than I appreciate that straightforwardness of my review. Taylor, we salute you. Thank you for your service. Kim. We know that the Warrens got themselves involved in the Amityville case. Yeah, and listeners of this podcast know how Eric and I feel about the Warrens. What's your take on the warrants? Oh, ah, my take usually gets me into trouble. Oh, sounds promising. Mmm hmm. So um, the word fraud isn't used greatly. Or often enough. I think I think they made a real good career for themselves. Like Zach Baggins. They found their niche audience and exploitive. It's I think, particularly recently there's been some stuff that's come out about Ed Warren that I wish I could say I was surprised but it's absolutely deplorable. So we're I already had a fairly low opinion of them to begin with the more recent things have come out about some of the abuses he's he's apparently Oh yeah, that's that's taking it to a whole other level but I think that they exploited a lot of people who put their faith in them and I think that's deplorable I think I mean, props to them for their business savvy. Like they can they built an empire out of out of playing off of a lot well and him at least he knew it some of the stuff that he said during the Enfields poltergeist where he full on told because they they were involved with the Enfield Poltergeist very like they went for like a day UK which if you've seen the second conjuring movie you're that's the case they cover except the Warrens had next to nothing to do with it the didn't they show up until the the officer you know if we play this right this is a career making you'll get a book he's like write a book about this you'll miss a full on admits to and that's not the only time that he was on record saying to somebody like you can write a book on this you'll be able to exploit this you'll be able to make money off of this and that all by itself I'm like again make your money how you're gonna make your money no no judgment there I dislike that. I think they made a lot of people think things that made situations worse. I think that it's how I feel about a lot of mediums I think that there is an element of therapy where if you are helping somebody great if you are if you if you make somebody feel like you are contacting their dead whomever and you are bringing that person peace awesome honestly, I don't care that's it's because but it's when they're exploiting people and they're making money off of people in the writing falsehoods and and abusing people. I'm like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. So I don't have the the best opinion of them may they rest in peace. Because they're both dead now she doesn't she she died a couple Yeah, not too long ago a couple years ago, I think. And he died early 2000s He's been dead for quite a while but there's been more stuff coming out since she died that I think was being kept under wraps and now some of the accusations particularly against him have been coming to light recently so yeah, I don't have I don't have the kindest opinion of the Warrens our work and then I wanted to get a little bit into your ghost hunting Sure. How often you do it, what it entails, do you do it with and what have you seen? Oh, so and a little less than that. endemic just because that going into people's houses Yeah, that put a little bit of a stop to a lot of things for a while, um, I, I do the tours that spooked in Seattle and I initially got hooked up with them because their sister organization was a ghost hunting group that I've been a part of. More recently though, I get asked into a lot of places either by people I know I've been getting a lot of local theaters I've been getting asked to either like sometimes I'm getting I'm consulting on a play they're doing I consulted on a play at the rap and another one at theater off Jackson and, like theater off Jackson, I taught the actors because they were supposed to be playing paranormal investigators how to use some of the equipment. We did a little ghost hunt at the theater and then got some really weird readings and freaked everybody out, which was my favorite moment of the evening. I got to leave with a What about the rehearsal? I was like, Alright, y'all have fun, be nice to the ghosts. I'm out. Just my favorite thing to just stir everybody up and be like, Okay, I gotta go to grades. But no, it's it's a lot of referrals. And honestly, a lot of times you're being called in to verify a haunting. And more often than not, what I'm verifying is, you guys have mice, or you have old pipes, or you should really get the wiring of this place checked out. A huge amount of the time you find rational explanations for whatever they've been experiencing. We ask if you think you have a ghost, one of the first things you're asked to do is to journal everything you notice anything called spot, write it down, write the time write the date, right? If you have pets, were your pets, if you have you know, did your heating turn on? Is the air conditioner on any observations? Because we start to look for patterns? Are things happening in the same location? Are certain things happening at the same time? If you have kids, where are your children because sometimes, you know, you keep hearing a weird noise every time your kids are in the basement. Okay, there's probably sound traveling through pipes. There you know you're trying to find you want to eliminate everything before you go to ghost at least I want to eliminate everything before I go to ghost did it. And then sometimes you have the stuff where you're like, Well, I can't explain that. That was weird words. Doing the tour guiding you do hang out in a number of haunted locations. I spent a lot of time in merchants cafe. And man weird stuff happens in merchants cafe. There's so there's the spirit of two children in their downstairs area. And I was leading a tour and I was bringing them in there and I had this little boy on the tour. It was like maybe six but he was he was super like oh this is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. So we had all these like those questions and wanted to know everything. So he was my shadow. He was right next to me. And we get down the stairs and he looks in the corner and he goes who's the little girl like that creeps me out when kids go all I see dead people I'm like no. And so stuff like that, like no one else saw her. And he got kind of frustrated about it. And he said she was wearing a weird dress and I was like congratulations my friend. I think you just saw ghosts. Wow, that's cool. That's a little ghost hunter was born in that. But you know, I've had you know, my clothing gets taught that especially at merchants like a little kid trying to get my attention. I was doing an investigation at the Walker Eames house, which is important gamble Washington. cool city. Yeah, little town. Crazy. Haunted whole town is haunted. Historic. So there's a lot of the original buildings there. And the walker Eames house is this it's gorgeous old mansion, you know, and we were in the whole place is crazy haunted, but we were on in the attic. And the attic has a couple different spirits, including, again, the spirit of a child. And investigators keep toys, toys out for the little kids spirits. It's a way to, you know, get them engaged to get them to come and maybe do something we'll ask them to move a ball or whatever. And it was myself and I think there's two or three other investigators with me and we're all sitting in a circle. And we, when we're on investigations anything we notice we record, we don't say it out loud, we record it, we timestamp and record it because again, we don't want to influence each other. If I dropped my flashlight, I have to record that so that when we're looking at everyone's notes someone else in the house Here's a thump at 905. And at 905, I dropped my flashlight. Cool. We know what happened there. So we're doing an EVP session, which is where we make recordings, and we ask questions in hopes of of getting some kind of response. And we'd asked a question, and the temperature of the whole place just plummeted. And this is August. And it's the attic, right. So it should be very was very, very hot. But we saw it dropped to good like 10 degrees on our meters. And there was some kind of shadow behind us. So the other investigator invited the what we assumed was the little, the little boy to come sit with us in the circle. And about 10 seconds later. My whole left arm just went colds and like goosebumps hair standing up. So you know, I record that. And at the same time, the girl who was sitting to the left of me recorded that her letter her right arm, goosebumps went cold, exact same time, as though this little spirit just sat between us joined us in the circle. And we both went because temperature fluctuations are very common when you have a Spirit coming in. So yeah, the walker Eames house is great, because every time I go in it, even on days where not much happens, something happens, man, something weird happens. I'll be honest, I don't believe in any of that stuff. I want to believe in it. And I'm afraid that if I experienced it, I'd be able to talk myself out of it all the time. Sure. I'm just I just know the way my brain works. I'd be scared at the moment. Sure, sure, sure. And then, you know, after a day, I explain it to lay somehow. One and we want to kind of look for those things that I don't know, it's fun to think there's a ghost it's fun to think that there's Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. It's an I get sent a lot of pictures, I get asked a lot questions, you know, oh, I think my house is haunted. And people start explaining things. And there's the two sides me the sides of me that wants to be like, okay, so I can tell you even without being in your house, what's probably going on, just based on how you're describing certain things and what I know about old houses and wood that expands and contracts and drafts and all that. But you don't really want me to tell you that you want me to reinforce that you have a spirit because that's more fun because they you want to live in a haunted house. And generally most spirits are not, you know, flinging people off of balconies, despite what movies tell us is happening. Most things that happen even in an active haunted space, you know, your, your keys move, or something gets knocked to the floor or the TV turns on or the lights turn on or it's it's it's stuff that's very easy to dismiss as well. Especially if you have an old house you like oh, the wirings bad. That's why sometimes the lights flicker. It's fun. It's fun to think you've got I mean, oh, my haunted doll does stuff and do I think she's haunted? Yeah, I've seen some weird stuff that she's done. Does everyone think she's haunted? Absolutely. That's, that's fine. Yeah. I like living in a world where I have a haunted doll on my shelf. Like, that's a good time. I'd like listening to the way you describe how you do stuff as opposed to like the ghost hunting shows or that noxious ghost adventure dickhead who just like yells at spirits. Like, why don't you say go away? Yeah. What you described sounds scientific method there where you're progressing. And that sounds, you know, that's not a great TV show. No, that's that's a great experience for you to do stuff like that. I think that that sounds really interesting. That's cool. And there's a reason why most of the ghost shows that are on our I felt a demon touch me because that's entertaining and somebody sitting there like, watching a temperature games and snapping some pictures and asking questions on an EVP session, not a spirit box because I refuse to use those. It's just it's not particularly compelling to watch. And then later, let's compare No, exactly. It's like okay, I got my report. You got your report. What happened? Did anything happen at 9030? Yeah, no, three I did this. Oh, great. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's it's not it's not the most riveting thing on the planet. It's the hours you just spend listening to recordings because you put tape recorders all over. And and sometimes video cameras so the amount of time I'll spend watching you know, six hours of video feed for any change and you can't stop watching because the second you stop watching something can happen. So you're just like, I have to blink boss. Okay. Oh, wait, but maybe maybe this No, no, it's okay. Something might change at any second guys, which is where I feel like my tolerance for really Add movies has gone up. something's gonna happen because exactly anything has got to be more entertaining than this live feed of someone's living room. Oh, no, that's the cat. Okay. Like, yeah. So I will say that as I've gotten older and really just in the last year or two, I've had long discussions with people who have kind of opened my eyes to the fact that as humans, we perceive three dimensions, and that there's just other stuff going on that, you know, even animals can detect that we can't detect. And, and so it is open my eyes to the idea that there's stuff probably moving around all the time that we just can't perceive. So I'm open to it. But I'm also an old man. Yeah, build that from beyond. Machine. See what happens right? Oh, god. Yeah, part of it would also be than the fact that I would have to come to terms with their stuff moving around me all the time. And I am not comfortable with that too hard, right. It's very true. Kim, tell everybody where they can find you. Ah, well, I find no addresses phone numbers. Well, if you want to see me give a tour, then you can go to spooked and Seattle if you want to listen to my podcast, you can go to ghoulish tendencies.com or anywhere you listen to podcasts, sometimes city of geek records so like Bob posts, and once a year usually we record so we've got plans to record an end of year so if we're following from last year's Bob, we'll have that posted by 2027. Their shade Bob I thought was amazing. He's the only one currently actively posting so really no shade. On Twitter at Seattle screams I talk a lot about horror films on Twitter and sometimes live tweet stuff. Otherwise, that's probably all the interesting things. And the podcast is ghoulish tendencies also ghoulish tendencies. Yeah. Okay. Eric, what about you what's going on with you? Keep in mind that this is coming out for months. Well, we've started production on our new film. I'm glad it's one of my favorite scrapes Kelly has ever written. So I'm excited about that. Wow. Thank you. So I'm looking forward to doing this. This film about a disembodied head in a box oh, wow develops out of it. Fantastic. Depending on when this comes out, my novel is either just about to come out or has been released. It is called the secret language of spiders. And you can find that@amazon.com and other places and keep up with all my writing on written by Carl jung.com. That's it for the episode. Thanks for everybody listening. Thanks, Kim for coming all the way up here to do this in person. Really appreciate that. And we will see you next time. The next movie is The Amityville Horror Remake with Ryan Reynolds. Oh goody. Chest was a black substance which was of the same nature and appearance as that which was on the porcelain and the toilets. And when the investigative team came on March 6 1976, the substance was still on the key halls and they were able to obtain samples of it because it was never in a MOIST CONDITION and they wouldn't do physical damage to the door. In other words, carve out a piece of wood without our consent to have either of you had any experience before with the occult. The supernatural ever before we didn't believe in it. We were afraid for your children. Why didn't you leave earlier than the 28 days if you were terrified? Well, it was our house. First of all, we had never intended to give it up even after we moved out. We intended to find out what was wrong and and move back in there. The Amityville Horror position 3d Science