LIVE AT CRYPTICON SEATTLE 2024!

LIVE AT CRYPTICON SEATTLE 2024!
Thrill at the sheer magnitude of humanity stuffed between the walls of our live show!  We take on the 1981 classic, The Howling.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration somewhere between science and superstition such sites to show you strange aeons. Welcome to strange aeons radio. That's Vanessa somewhere maybe above or below me. Hi. There, that's Eric, the other person in this three band. The Brady Bunch, but less just ah, Hey, gang. We're here because we're doing a little intro for our live show, which we recorded at cryptic con Seattle 2024. I will just put this out there. It was lightly attended. But the biggest audience we've had for one of these shows, it was probability over quantity. Let's just say that. I haven't heard full numbers. I know. The the vendors, a lot of every vendor I talked to was pretty happy. So that's always a good sign. Yeah. Doesn't mean they all were but the ones I talked to. And then I was I was saying our our live show was lightly attended, not the con. The con seemed PAC to me. Yeah. Did you not hear the applause and the promo thing I put up? I did. That is not the real applause. Yeah, it was my worst fucking nightmare. As far as these live shows go. And if this had happened, the first time we did this, I would have said never again. We had, we had five people there. And we knew three of them. And one of the guys we know the best there didn't show for most of it. And it's okay, come on. Where are you? But well, we were opposite. The from beyond paml. Right. Which was packed. I saw pictures of that. And it was jam packed. With any at all. We had all three of the major stars there. So it was just Yeah, weird. And then I forgot what the other one was. But somebody said there's another really popular thing. I don't think it was the singing, we could hear which thankfully did not show up on our record. But that was annoying. That was a lot, a lot to deal with. The quality of our responses during that episode are going to be a little bit interesting because we often were like, That's a catchy tune. I think I know a hit and it's eating my brain and slightly shaking me from below. Yeah, it turned out there was a live musical performance going on in the courtyard while we were recording and it was very distracting, but I think we soldiered through fairly well. In fact, I think we soldiered through fairly well on our topic, which was the howling considering that there were only a few people there. Carlos showed up. John O'Bannon showed up Seth Sherwood showed up which was a real pleasure to me, except he did just show up because he knew I always bring Scotch to the panel. But I'll just say this, the show was so lightly attended. I poured Scotch for everybody in the audience, too. So speaking of that, one of the guys you pour pour to drink for bottle some pizzas after the show. Thank you, James. That was much appreciated, which was wild, because this is somebody that we didn't know from, like, regular life. So it was great. Somebody that well, yeah. And yeah, it was super cool. And I had brought a copy of my upcoming novel, The secret language of spiders to to give out as a giveaway with like some trivia or something. But since he had shown up and said that he was a fan of the show, I was like, James, I'm just gonna give you this book and he was he was very grateful. So that was really cool. And I ran into him the next morning he said, That damn Kelly Young and his stupid book kept me all night up all night long reading the whole thing and loving all of it. So that is so amazing. And he wrote a nice post on the strange aeons radio talk about everybody should preorder it pre orders are up right now on Amazon and I will have pre orders for the physical copy on written by Carl jung.com. So you're going to hear the live show coming up next. And I don't know that we need to say much more about that. We chose the howling because Joe Dante was in attendance. I did complain to Eric, later that maybe I didn't want to do live shows anymore and we came up With a solution of maybe we just do our regular show as a live show, so there's not as much research going into it that, you know, goes into these kind of deep dives on the live shows topic. And that's a lot more doable to me. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a great idea. And you know, then people can just come in for the experience of it. You know, exactly right. Maybe we see if there is a, a special guest director there. And we all just pick a film from that director or something like that, that and then we just do our thing. We bring the timer in. We give them the whole show, something like that. That sounds more fun to me. Definitely. Yeah. Eric, what was your favorite part of the festival? The Well, the film festival really, really well. Are as usual, the Northwest blocks on Friday were insanely well attended we had. So it's fun. Because you know, we're at convention, this isn't a theater, you don't get the awesome Egyptian, like the bone bat, or the Hollywood theater at Lovecraft, or anything like that. It's just a room in a hotel. And we had at one filmmakers sign up to our movie show. So hopefully, shit. So those are always fun. And then I had a personal cool thing that I really enjoyed. And that was getting Severan to be part of the convention. And bringing them in and getting them a booth at a table. And they had a great time, really enjoyed the people that they worked with there. And Steve and the panel room and the vendor Hall, and they're probably going to be back next year. And we're talking a little bit about maybe upping the stakes of what they do. So I'm not gonna call possibility guru. And paneled, again, for the first day, I usually maybe I'll do one a year this I did like five or six. It's like, yeah, that's fun. It is fun. Yes. Fun to share your your insight. And your Scotch. And my case, sir. NASA, you were there for a short time, what was your favorite part? There are really only two things that happened while I was there. And they were both great. So our panel was spectacular. I had just enough time to have my baby watched in order for me to get to the convention, do our panel and then a little window and then leave our convention, the convention so but I will say you know, getting drinks with you guys after even though Eric was a little Mia. Like, it was really fun. It was nice to just relax and hang out for a minute. So, you know, my favorite thing was, you were like ready to get out of there. As soon as the panel was done. I was like, we can't have one drink with us. I'm like, the king of peer pressure brought me back to my high school days. And you were like, I can have one drink. And then like three hours later, you're like, I really really have to go now. Yeah, and it was funny to get well, I mean, part of the reason it was three hours later is because we had very poor service, and I was like getting my drink. It took about an hour just to get the drink. But it was still it was it was fun. It was nice. And I texted it turned out that my daughter took a really nice long nap. So I was like, okay, school. There was not like alone. Yeah, it was fun. Maybe not alone, but with another person. And part of the problem or bonus for that how you want to look at it is we had a guy who had a short films screening who flew in from Spain. Yeah. First visit ever to the United States was to come see his show or is a short play at crypto con Seattle Film Festival. So Mike. He wanted to sit down and have a drink. I was like, Maybe I should do that. And he was a pretty nice guy. He was a he was a great guy. I spoke with him for a long time. His name was Carlos. I made sure to rub this into my buddy Carlos his face to say Spaniard named Carlos and his English was amazing. And Carlos then proceeded to tell me how horrible most of the Spaniards are. And all of this stuff. So good has the desired effect. Yeah, like, oh, well, you know, my favorite part of any of these conventions, I don't love conventions. But I do love the people that I love. I don't love people. But the people that I love, I really love and sometimes I only get to see them once a year. This is that convention. So John O'Bannon came up. That was really nice. He's one of my favorite people. I was best man at his wedding. The the jokes that we all have is is really special to me. They're all filthy, so I can't share them. But it's fair. So yeah, just hanging out with people. Joseph scrimshaw showed up, who I met a couple years ago at the Lovecraft Film Festival, and then met again at the Lovecraft Film Festival last year, and I just feel like we've we've become pretty good friends. And I love him. He's a super nerd. And he had a film in the film festival as well. And that have come up for the first time a guy I've known since like junior high. I was just gonna say, Jamie likes to say he was in the room when you and I met. Like it. That was not a momentous occasion. But thank you for trying to pretend it was. I love Jamie and I brought him up to the room, and we finished off my bottle of scotch and caught up. And that was lovely. So yeah, most of my good memories at any convention is hanging out with people. We had dinner with Brian and Glen from Lovecraft Film Festival on Saturday night. And that was really nice. And then we went up to the 13th floor and paddled around with everybody up there. And there's, it's just a good group of people, you know, and it's so weird. It's at every horror convention. They're the most accepting fandom in the world. I think they're just all nice, friendly people. Yep, very true. Yeah, we did have another fun thing happened to after having breakfast with Steve harlots. He decided to give us an award. Yes. I don't think that's why we got the award. Oh, okay, cool. You guys earned it. They presented? Well, it was from our showing at the bone bath Film Festival, but they then had a showing of the best of wombat at cryptic con. Yeah. And I thought there was going to be like an award ceremony with a bunch of filmmakers and all that stuff. Nope. Just Eric and I won award, it felt very awkward. Well, now I'm feeling really uncomfortable about this again. I think the other was quite a ways away, the other filmmakers. But hey, It pairs well with our 2017 land package win. Yeah, these are really cool awards. Because they're each one is kind of a unique thing. They have to etch that title in and and then paint and do all of that stuff. That's really a neat little award. Yeah, they do a good job. We should think about doing stuff like that for the Charles Dexter award. We should, we should think about it, and then go. Now. There's a lot of winners, and the way we do the winners and word. Find out the address of some random director that made the movie we'd like to just mail it to him. Hey, Joe, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. What else? Let's see, I skipped two of my panels that I was supposed to do, just because one of them I wasn't exactly sure. I didn't know, research on it. And I was like, I'm not sure how I ended up on this panel. And then the other one was, Joseph scrimshaw had just suddenly walked into the bar. And I was like, Why can't just go now. And then I dragged Eric on to my only other panel, which was with Brian and Glen, and they were talking about how hard it is to adapt love craft to film. And at one point, as I figured they would they ambushed us with our film. The thing on the doorstep, which was fine, we we actually kind of blew it up and, and said everything we didn't love about the film, which was long litany of things. But then after that, so they had a they had a slideshow on a TV going the entire time. So when they brought up our film, there's behind me a loop of a scene from our film. And then somebody raised their hand. This was a highly attended panel. And somebody had a question, and Brian just went off and started answering that question. Meanwhile, this loop of this film that I hate is just playing right next to me, and I was just like, Fuck, I'm gonna have to drink a lot tonight to get over this. So, but I did and I got over it. Well, it's always hard to watch something that you made a couple you know, a couple years ago or many many years ago. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's really it's always gonna be tough and sometimes I don't know like I'll think man I'm How is such a piece of crap, that thing I did. And then you sit down and you're watching you're like, well, actually, there's like these good little interesting things that you know how it's not as bad as I thought. So I don't know it's it's healthy. It's healthy to look down on your previous work because you always want to achieve high Your fights. Yeah, shouldn't be too mean about it. So two things, there are some really nice shots and performances in our film. I can admit that. Mostly what I, what I'm not happy about is my script. But and then the other thing is this, Eric, you said a few years ago. This is like, this is the 20th anniversary of us shooting that film. Right? That's kind of insane. Yes, that's wild. And of course, as Director, I'll blame myself too. So you know, we all just work it out. Well. Yeah, well, I've taken to drinking heavily to get past all of it. So anything else we want to do? Like you need excuses for all you're drinking heavy? Okay. Everything is why you're drinking heavily. You're you woke up this morning is why you're drinking heavily. Vaping really, really well lately? Because I've been drinking very heavily. Anything else? We want to talk about Krypton before we throw it to the live show? I don't think so. There's a lot of crazy crap that goes on. There's a lot of fun. Yeah, panels and live events and live Rocky Horror Picture Show performance. And the vendor room that the vendor group puts together is just amazing. can't be beat. I don't know if you guys felt the same way. Vanessa, did you even get a chance to walk through the vendors are of the same ah, it was really artists heavy this time. And everybody was great. I just kept walking by going, oh, man, this is really great. And I was taking cards from everybody because I'm like, I got books coming up that's gonna need some cover. Did you buy anything? Or not this year, I guess I was in and out really fast. Unfortunately. I've got and I also want to check on the seventh table to make sure they are having fun since I was so involved. But also like that the there's a smaller room, the artists room that had just started up a couple years ago. And that's finally come into its own. I thought this was the first really good year for that room, which of course has our buddy Nick and Bob and a bunch of other people that we know that do good work. So yeah, I really rent a room. It was also highly attended. That's in fact, where I took most of the business cards from because there were some really great artists in there. There were a number of authors in there that were selling their books and really cemented the idea that I am not going to show up and try to sell my books at a convention. It's just It's heartbreaking. There you know, there's just not sales to be had there. So speaking of books, I don't want to have it right here. I do. Cryptic on brought back it's writers contest, published an actual book of it right away. Now you know who won first prize? Michael Falcone? That's amazing. Michael Falcone has been the location manager on a couple of our films. Now, I wish I had picked that up. Where would you even buy that? Amazon? It's it is available through Amazon now. But I assume they were selling it at the show. Yeah. Oh, I didn't even see that. Yes. Yeah, that's really cool. It's time back that has been put together the guy roomed with this year was put it together and Brandon did a pretty damn good job. So it's nice to see it return after many years. No, that's very cool. I will look into that. They also had soy out in the now you know, historically and maybe infamously, if you want a meal at the DoubleTree you're dropping, you know, $30 on a burger and soda. But they brought back the, in the courtyard, they were making burgers for a while, and they were only like $15 Only three times as much as a burger should cost. But also in there was a chainsaw. Wood artist. Did you guys see any of that stuff? Oh, Vanessa. You didn't see it. And I didn't take a picture of it. He had a full sized ninja turtle out there. That was amazing. That's so cool. And I ended up talking to him and he was the guy from originally from Alaska moved to Bellingham. I was raised in Bellingham. My stepfather was born and raised in Alaska. So I talked to him for a long time and we really hit it off. He was really great. There's just so much to see a cryptic con, you know, the weather kind of held off. So if you were there Friday, you got to do a tour outside of all the houses and all of that stuff is just a really cool fun festival. Yeah, although the weather did get there on Sunday and a tree fell on a couple cars, I saw that it was literally right outside of Josephs window, Joseph scrimshaw, he sent me a picture of his original thing, because when he shows up anywhere, he takes a picture of his view. And then he sent me a picture of it after the tree. faladi is like, notice anything different? That was like, What did you do? Luckily, no, people were hurt. But yeah, some cars. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. It was not a small tree. No. Oh, my God, that's unbelievable. Well, I'm so glad that I didn't get to spend more time there. And. But it's amazing seeing all the pictures that start showing up on social media of everybody having a great time. And hopefully next year, I'll actually get to properly be there. So I'll say this, if you're thinking about visiting from another state, do it, it's a blast. If you're here in Washington, and you haven't visited and you're a horror fan, you're really missing out. And then the third thing to know is, you want to get there for the weekend. And you want to get there early on Friday, if you're driving in because of parking packs up, and you will then be parking in the satellite lots and then having to get your way there. So parking is parking is the worst part about the whole thing. So I live close enough that this year, I was able to take a lift, and it was the best decision I could have possibly made. So very nice. And it's not like they have a small parking lot. They've got a huge park. And then another huge parking lot in front. It's just this thing is starting to pack up. Yep. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, all right, gang. Is that it then? Should we throw it over to the live show? Yeah, yeah. Got the how's it going, guys? We got the howling coming up for your next next week. We will be back with our regular programming, which is going to be spiders. But we'll be doing it as a zoom call because our normal recording Day falls on Mother's Day and one of us is a real mother this year. Vanessa you beat me to the punch line. I was gonna say some of that one to you. I was trying to I quickly enough me like which one? We took it out? Ah, no. You got to me first. Yeah, me and then my mom as well. So we always do like a she likes to go to the Red Lobster. Oh, we all go the Red Lobster get better be. Everybody's doing this. I think they're a little greasy. But you know what? That's part of the that's part of the charm. That's just, that's just how it be. That's just what people love. Yeah. Yeah. So that'll be fun. And yeah, then after that, we'll return to our in person. Knock on wood. Gonna hold you to that, Vanessa. Okay. Well, thanks, guys. Thanks for this zoom call. And thanks to all the listeners and all that stuff. And here's the part where I say thanks for liking sharing posts, because I don't say it at the end of the live show. And if you want to be a part of the value for value model, that just means if you find some value out of this give some value back that can be in the form of money, which we love, or in the form of liking and sharing posts, commenting on the YouTube videos. All of that stuff is value for us as well. So thanks again guys. Enjoy the howling and we will see you next Thursday. Welcome to strange aeons radio. That's Eric over there. Hello. That's Vanessa over there. Hello, I'm Kelly. We are recording live at crypto con Seattle 2024. And that means all four of you have to make some noise. Wow, this is a lightning attendee who will remember I mean, how many of you had to drink Kelly? today? First of all, so I'm responsible for part of it. Well done. And it has been a lot. How's you guys con going? Vanessa, you just got here. I've been here. 45 minutes. Yeah. And I got to see a very good editor friend of mine, who was here by accident for the first time ever, and he gave me sticker. And then I saw a girl that I only ever see at crypto con and I gave her a hug and now I'm here. It's kind of the point of the con right is the hangout with people you only get to see once a year for the first time ever, Oh, hello. Hey guys. I have had a great con. Have you? Yeah. The way I responded to my texts. It's fine. I haven't even looked at my phone. That's terrible. I go to every con thinking I just Want to hang out with the people I like and love and I have been blessed to be able to do that this week, especially. So, Carlos and I shared a couple of drinks very early this morning. Well, it sounds about right. Breakfast vodka is the best vodka you know, my favorite breakfast cereal. And then I just kept going I was able to sit down with Seth and Lisa OVS. And and now with you guys, I have poured a little bit of the the westward stout cast. I believe Bob Hill gave this to us when we hit our 200th episode or something like that episode coming up. Just about done, Bob. So yeah, if you want to kick in, so this episode has been fine. If you haven't listened to our episode, this is not how we normally do our podcasts would normally we pick a sub genre and then each of us picks a film from this sub genre. And then we talk about it and that is not what we do when we come to crypto con. For the last couple of years we have done John Carpenter movies Yeah, and I thought that was just always going to be our Mo Same here. I have so many John Carpenter's shirts I can't wear today but then Eric suggested because the big guest here is Joe Dante that we attack the howling Do you see how howling somebody city report any sighting repeat human jungle begin just try he's right there. What do you see was somewhere in these woods in this primal sensuous secret place lies in experience to terrify and now anyone can do is watch and wait the hallway give it a shot. Yeah, yeah, there's a guest that's in the line that I can't say yet if we get we're definitely doing representative but what I thought John Carpenter Oh, fuck, Eric. I was like my him literally hurting right now. I was like, how did you get him away from Sonic the Hedgehog and like basketball, cuz I want to know your secrets. So because we are talking about the howling? Here's what I'm gonna assume you've all seen the movie The howling. So what I'm going to do to start us off is talk a little bit about the howling novels The howling trilogy, written by Gary Brandner. So, the first movie The howling is, of course based on the novel of the same name, but only written by one Garry Brandner Brander was at various times, an amateur boxer, bartender, surveyor, loan company investigator, advertising copywriter and technical writer at the age of 45. He wrote his first novel, The Aardvark affair, you guys big fans of the Aardvark great ever that is the Aardvark trilogy, not as well known. In 1977, he wrote his fourth novel at the age of 47, which was the howling so that means for in two years, he wrote four novels. He sold the film rights immediately and had nothing more to do with the film. Then also pretty well and Brander was asked by his publisher for a sequel and in 1978 This is still to three years before the howling is released, he released the howling tool, also known as return of the howling, which is incredibly campy and very cool in my opinion, pleases me greatly. So when Joe Dante got the chance to direct the howling, he brought his Parana scriptwriter John sales over and they throughout the screenplay that was written by Terrence linkless, which was a fairly faithful adaptation of the source novel And they tossed out pretty much everything in the book except for the title, the howling and the lead protagonist named Karen. And one other thing, and this is important, okay, it kind of revolutionized the world sub genre, the idea that werewolves would live or travel impacts interest. So prior to this, I think Gary Brandner should absolutely be credited for bringing this idea to contemporary horror. Prior to this, the werewolf is a tortured individual, right? Who has to deal with this monthly curse and they lock themselves away not that monthly curse, but it's not a curse thing. Okay, so Brandon are introduced the idea of not just a community but an entire town full of werewolves, like a pack of wolves have a side question as far as the pack goes, Yeah. In the past the wolf and kind of did that to to net Willie strivers Book Two that Warfarin has is not werewolves. It's just wolves. Like it's Wolfen. They have they're just super intelligent wolves with thumbs Exactly. Right. And cool. Obviously, Seth knows, and pretty vision that movie is. Unfortunately, not as cool as the source novel. Is this movie is somehow better than the source novel. But I'm going to talk a little bit about the differences. So first off, I'll just note that this book is far grimmer than the movie is. None of the satire and humor that Joe Dante brought to it. It begins with a fairly brutal rape scene, Vanessa? Ah, favorite thing? I don't think that you like rape, but I know that you like watching it. And because you know, it's a book about werewolves, you assume that the person who's raping our protagonist is going to be the werewolf. No, just some random dude who rapes her in like three pages of very graphic detail. It's a really strong way to start a book. Yeah. It's super uncomfortable. It's like, do you like this book? Gotcha, gotcha. Look for a teenage boy. No, it's all good. It is. So this simple, random violent assault sets. Karen, same as in the movie, and her husband Roy, who was Bill in the film, because Dante wanted to name everybody after old filmmakers that he loved. Okay. It sends them off on a journey to find a quiet place to get away for a while. So in the book, Karen is just a housewife. She is not a newscaster or reporter. So she's home alone with when this assault happens. The man also strikes her in the stomach and she miscarries her baby. Lord, super fun times in the first 10 pages of this book, smart choices were made in making this into a movie. So Karen and Roy head to the little town on the coast called Drago and things just proceed to get weirder and weirder. One of the things from the book that Dante did keep in was inclusion of the seduction of Karen's husband, Roy, by a werewolf woman. But she's not the biker clad woman from the movie. Also, there's none of the hippie dippie commune feeling that Dante use so perfectly to secure that lifestyle that's not in the book. I think that definitely works for what Dante wanted to do, which was kind of point A satirical lens at self help groups and that kind of stuff. But Brenners got some interesting observations of small towns and how inherently creepy they can be. And I he might have just needed to get his protagonist into a place she was uncomfortable with. So here's the thing, Gary Brandner, rest in peace. Not the best writer in the world, certainly not in 1977. I have read a lot of his books, and they do get better and better. But this this book is not very well written. So all of the stuff that happens in the book kind of correlates with things that do happen in the movie, but the end of the book has Karen and a friend she is called up locking all the werewolves, including her transformed husband, Roy in a building and fleeing the town, the entire town of which is caught up in a huge conflagration that's sweeping through the woods. But as they as they leave, they can hear from all around them. The howling it's kind of a Richard Matheson I Am Legend kind of title because it's it's the last line in the book. And it's, it's, I don't know, just very cool. I did it. It's a short novel, as you can see, which I appreciate, and it does cook right along. But Gary Brandner is no Stephen King and his character Here's your mostly what is the A Kelly mentioned? Oh, I don't think he's that good far far surpasses a Kellyanne. So I'm going to turn this over to Vanessa who is actually going to discuss the movie and Dante. Absolutely. So I'm going to jump into how we normally format the show and talk a bit about the film itself. And Mr. Dante, so the howling came out in 1981 has a Rotten Tomatoes score of 74% from critics and 60% from audience, but that's okay because the budget was 1.5 million and the box office was 17 point 9 million cow it did good. Is starring Dee Wallace, who has 277 credits to her name as TV reporter Karen White. She was in the Hills Have Eyes et Cujo alligator to the mutation raka doodle 48 episodes of the new last year and regularly does between five to 10 projects a year this woman works. Christopher stone plays her mustachioed husband he is at six credits his name and it turns out he also is her real life husband at this point. Still mustachioed. He also started Cujo 40 episodes of the new last year, as well as 75 episodes of Days of Our Lives. Patrick Macnee as Dr. George Wagner, the cult leader slash therapist 175 credits to his name 161 episodes of The Avengers as basil, he was in waxwork and a view to kill and this I didn't know until it was on IMDb, Robert Picardo, the doctor from Voyager as Eddie, the kind of surreal killer that they were following at the very beginning of this movie. Yeah, it was kind of cool, kind of cool thing. Um, so this was directed by Joe Dante. He has 41 directing credits to his name and a little bit about Joe. He was born in Morristown, New Jersey. His father was a professional golfer who encouraged him to play sports, but he was more interested in drawing cartoons and going to the Saturday matinees as a cinema instead, he plans to become a cartoonist, but was told that wasn't a real art form and he should try something else. So while attending the Philadelphia College of Art, he found himself falling into filmmaking. In his free time as a student he assembled the movie orgy and epic collection of B movie clips 16 millimeter films, cartoons, commercials and trailers into a seven hour compilation. In the 1970s. He had a stint as a film reviewer before beginning an apprenticeship under Roger Corman, where he was offered a job in the trailer cutting department for New World Pictures. In 1975. He moved into directing and made the satirical exploit exploitation film Hollywood Boulevard based on a bet that Roger Corman made, where he said he would try to do the cheapest film he could for new world in under 10 days. It was mostly made up of Corman's other works so cool. Two years later, he did Purana and then in the 1980s collaborated with John sales to to work on the howling. So that's when we jump into the film itself. I will say just after the howling you're doing just fine. Okay, I can be done talk as long as you want to, like five pages. All right, after the howling just so we you know keep abreast of him. He went on to do Gremlins and Gremlins to interspace the burbs matinee Small Soldiers and Looney Tunes Back in Action. The last took such a toll on him. He stopped working in film until 2009 When he returned to direct the whole he's also done quite a bit of TV work, including five episodes of Erie and Indiana 10 episodes of splatter and recently 10 episodes of Hawaii fi though he also produces a critically acclaimed webisode slash mobile phone series called trailers from hell. So that's Joe Dante mobile phones. I described it as I did not look it up. So maybe it's evolved into a podcast I don't know probably. Yeah. Are you serious? I I have a couple of things about Joe Dante that I wanted to talk about that pertain to the howling. This is from my IMDb trivia. Oh, good. I'm glad somebody looked it up knows if this can be trusted source on the internet. director Joe Dante has been very critical of the book that this movie is based on. He did many interviews talking about how the book wasn't much good and how they had him prove the story with the movie. One day at the Hollywood script writing Institute for a lecture, Dante started talking and bad mouthing the book, and a man raised his hand from the audience and said, so you don't like the book? And Dante answered, well, no, not really, to which the Man in the audience replied, Because I wrote that book. So this is why you gotta be nice. Also, the way that the movie ends with the, the shooting of Dee Wallace, Karen, in the studio, I have always hated that. I hate the way that she transforms and kind of a II walk looking thing. And she's cute. And I understand why they did that. But I didn't like it. I'm half convinced, because the second book that only two was already out the D Wallace. Put that into her contract, because she didn't want to be in a sequel for a werewolf movie, or something like that. And I'll even say that if she turned into a scary looking werewolf, that would have made me love the end if she had started. Instead of the tears and everything. Oh, why was she so cute? I don't know. Maybe your whole point of that was because she was supposed to be shown as she is a good person. And so she turned it into a werewolf Pomeranian or something like that. But very weird choice. But yeah, so that those are the notes I have on the end of the film. Cool. Eric, would you like to I know you got a section that that you really wanted to the effects of this movie are part of the reason it was part of the reason it's such a hit. And part of the reason it's so well known is the effects. The description in the script that led to these effects was turns into werewolf. So yeah, wow, there's a lot to work with. Probably the most famous transformation scenes would be like you've got the as it progresses. The original wolfman change which was basically put some hair on, cut, come back, put some more hair on cut, come back. Yeah. The most famous wearable scene, it's gotta be American world from London. May, probably and best I would say. And Kelly's done, he says, I'm leaving. Where to Kelly go. All right. And you've seen almost all the effects you possibly could to make a transformation scene for that month. The big thing of this, I'd say the howling said says very easily in that third fourth round of one of the best transformation scenes. And it's largely due to bladder effect, which is fairly new at that time, but not completely new. The transformation starts in an uncut version, where it pulls a bullet out of his head. Every night going, Oh, that sounds grim. And then I saw that and the guys I have well, that really why they helped you cut back. Dig, don't done. I mean, it's like almost that long, saying, okay, whatever. But anyways, his face is covered in the bladder effects to make it grow. And what the bladder effects do is you put them under cover thing, and you add air into them essentially just pump them in, out, up, down. They do all kinds of weird shit. As the scene progresses, the head gets a they use a fake head, which really hurts the scene. It looks pretty good when it says real head but the the eyes are. They're just dead. They're just you can tell that's not a real person. And it really hurts the transformation. But that's okay. And the other transformation I wrote here, because I do also a little to get a little too cute. I think we can all agree on that. In any view on the recent released Blu ray Disc, Rob butene looks kind of like a werewolf. There's actually an interview with him from that time. He's got hair down to below his shoulders. He's got a full beard going up the cheeks. And I was like, wow, that is inspiration for what you're working on. Oh, yeah. And big, open hairy chests thing going on? Perfect. Very, very well done. And Joe, Dante, of course, is wearing rose colored glasses. The howling was in production alongside American Werewolf in London. So they both took their they people say one ripped off the other? No, they didn't wear anything else be closer. They probably work together a little bit to make these happen between what wasn't Rick Baker originally so and then rob took over when he went and he moved over to American wearables. That's kind of crazy. So they probably more likely work together. In some aspects brains. I would again imagine them brainstorming what are you going to do to make this wearable happen? What are you going to do? But that seems more likely than them sitting in a store. I know what Rob's doing. Fuck him. I'm doing more of but there there's similarity but there man, they're distinct. So another weird aspect of the effects in this film that I didn't realize was his premise. went originally was David Allen's stop motion scenes, which stay in for about a second and a half. And the very end when you see or near the end, when you see three wolves standing after the car ride the whole scene in the barn, where they set the barn on fire and start to burn them. He did that too. Oh, and the desk has that scene or parts of that scene. Kind of. Yeah, I know why this was cut. Dude. It looks rough. And it's not entirely his fault. There was the the way the final one is caught. It's very, as you would expect close, dark. Things happening really quickly in the in the stop motion. It's like, bright as hell. It's the full bodies of the entire werewolves. It just it looks. It doesn't look great. It's good stop motion. It looks really bad in the context of this film, though. But David Allen was so worked on stuff like the hunger. I don't think he did stop motion there. Oh, maybe? Dolls, pre hysterical. So yeah, he was he's on the he's interviewed to on there and he comes across kind of like, I got paid. Good. Peter Karang handled the animated sequences, including the opening credits and stuff like that. And the werewolf transformation of Bill and Marcia made coital. That scene looks so fake. And it might be my favorite scene in the movie. It's pretty excellent. And it's like intercut with I can't remember but they keep coming back. And I'm like, Yes, I need to see you guys keep trying to have sex by this fire. It's truly I think it's amazing. It's really well done scene. Yeah, seems it almost feels like if there was some uncomfortableness with it. So they added the fire in at certain times. They did Yeah, I know. I know. I know for a fact that the actress who played Marcia is a Marcia Marcia. Marcia. Marcia. She had no problem being nude in front of everybody but her contract stipulated no nudity on screen. What she sued for she was very unhappy with the final. I didn't include her in the IMDB because she had so few credits. Yeah, so probably because she's not probably all of this. Yeah, yeah. But let's see, where was I? Oh, Peter. Kron also worked on Robocop and nightbreed. You've done some cool shit. Rick Baker, who used to was Dick Smith's assistant on the Exorcist, is where they kind of started using the bladder effects to much better impact and I use it in American Werewolf in London. I think it's used more subtly and better in American world from London. The bladder effects at times in this one are like, pulling back. Like this is definitely a bag of air his whole face. It's almost like a cauldron effect. Yeah, and I don't know. I kind of love it for that. It seems like the transformation in this is very painful. Yeah. Eddie, Eddie quest. He's totally fine with it. Yep. That old man though. It was like please put me out of my misery. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm like I get it. Dude. This sucks. Protein also used bladder effects in the thing. The Beast Within little less known one and uninvited. We got some music going on is not what the hell is going on. Some kind of concert of known music. Let's see where was I? times during the shooting. When Robert Picardo was very despondent about the hours he had to spend in the makeup on the special edition DVD recommend remarks. One day after spending six and a half hours in the makeup chair. I was thinking trying to do too little in roles on Broadway. My first acting role in California. My face gets melted into low budget horror movie. The crews response that heard him say that up next time. Read the whole script. Oh, well, and the D Wallace cute transformation was done. In Joe Dante his office. That's why it's such a weird close up angle. They've run out of budget for any more locations to go back to the News studio. So you shot it in his office. Interesting. Okay. All right, you know, the howling. As we dove into this, I kind of felt there's less to talk about this than the average John Carpenter. Right. Yeah. And I have a question since you dug into the special effects. i The one thing that really stood out to me is how different each one was. I felt like I was watching a collage of concepts of special effects between the animation the stop motion, the bladder effects The stop and comeback transformation with prosthetics. So was there any rhyme or reason to why they just shotgun defects at the screen? Sorry, the singer that's going right now is not great. I'm very interesting to listen to you in comparison turns out no, yeah, no, I'm enjoying it. It's a nice little contrast. But the where was I? Oh, the, they just kind of used what they thought would work for whatever the scene was. That's what they initially because they initially wanted full werewolves in the fire. So that's why they went with stop motion because they couldn't afford full body makeups which they obviously didn't use in the end. And when they did the werewolf stuff in the barn, it was not. There's no full body shots. It's all close up stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I actually love the mix. Yeah, I think that it grew on me as the film went on. But I did spend most of the film going. I mean, it was outside of myself. I wasn't in the story. Yeah, I was like, Oh, that's interesting. They made this decision here or there. It just felt very piecemeal. And I didn't feel like I had a consistent idea of how werewolves function in this film, because sometimes they look just like people with bladder effects. And sometimes they look like full blown giant wolf, right? So it just, and then, of course, you throw the Chewbacca lady. And I was like, Oh, I have no idea on this werewolf world, I would think part of the thinking would be that an individual person will change into whatever werewolf that personality hurts, which is why horrible like you said they wanted the best possible answer. And I'm sure it's not true, but I love it. That's true. Filmmakers make terrible decisions while on set. It's true. Well, they just make the decision, they have to roll with it. I'm sure that's what it was. But well, listen, clearly, Joe, Dante is not going to swing in here. While we're recording this very much, he's going to be listening to this show. So I'll say this is not my favorite Joe Dante film. And quite honestly, it's not my favorite werewolf film. And it's not my favorite werewolf from from 1981. So that's true. So this is a movie that I having watched again, I was able to really appreciate because of the hodgepodge of everything that went into it. And there's, there's a sleaziness to this film that I really enjoy. That just feels you know, like 1980s, New York, as always, kind of made me happy. You may live there. But I love seeing stuff like that. And I ended up liking this movie at the end of this tour through second or third. Rewatch more than I thought I did. When I first saw it. I kind of had the opposite effect of we do another podcast about Amityville Horror. And I remember liking that movie, then I watched it again go wrong. Yeah. And howling, I felt the opposite about where it's like, I can't remember. Oh, that's all right. Except for those. There's those cool scenes that you always remember. Going up. This is better than I remembered it being I've kinda like it this time around. It was definitely like, kind of interesting, because there were certain things that I thought that they did really well between the characterization where people had really cool, interesting personalities, even if they're only there for a second. Yeah, I just felt like they were extremely well written and well lived in. And also like, I love how they took that original werewolf lore of the wandering husband, and used it and then literally used it. I mean, I don't know if a lot of people I'm sure most people know that the werewolf concepts, in some ways came out of this sort of thing where guys would disappear in the night and they'd come back and the next day with claw marks and they were like, I don't know what happened, something overtook me. And the wives are like, okay, and they're like, it's so aware of what's become of me, I am a beast, I cannot control it. I must be gone X number of nights a month. So no, I think once the full moon, full moon full moon. And I love that they had the actual husband literally do that in this and have his cheating moment that way. I just felt like that was such a nice callback to the concept. I wonder how much of that was intentional? And I say that absolutely. On ironically, and honestly, because John sales has written some fucking amazing movies as real trash movies. I never know how much he's actually putting into a script. You know how it couldn't be intentional. It's just way too like on the nose. Almost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I also love how quickly her husband is just like instantly. It's like it took no effort to seduce him. But it's like The 80s Man, he has a stash. He can't help themselves, always the stash. He had that kind of one scene where she hit on him a little bit in the parties, or the introduction or something like, no, no. My wife, why. So, so wild, I didn't fully understand the commune aspect. I was just like, there were a few things. I didn't love that between like, we're in going into this hippie dippie commune. And it was just so strange that she was looking at where we'll stuff and then she's invited to this werewolf secret commune, but she's not a werewolf. And I was like, what? Why did they invite her there was also a hippie to become your more they went regularly hunting. Oh, who are they just gonna? But then at the end, they say we can't kill her because she's too famous. And that's why they don't immediately kill her near the end. And I'm like, Why is she here? I don't interested. I just assumed she was bitten earlier on, and that they were like waiting for a transformation. But then she's not bitten again until anyway, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. I was just like, what is happening right now? Yeah, I think I mean, it is a movie of its time and the things that were happening since the early 80s. So I think that's what, you know, one of the things that clearly Dante is trying to say is that the media tells you what to believe. And so her showing up at the end of the film, and making sure that you see this happening is her way of saying we've been lying to you. And now you're seeing something real part of what was going on to with that is her doctor. Yeah. And there's a lot of the late 70s, early 80s were full of psycho analysts, the misuse of psychology and doctors doing some weird as shit. Like locking people in hotel rooms for days and not letting them go to the bathroom and weird stuff. So she was I felt a little caught up in that concept. And she followed him out there, not necessarily knowing what she was, but hey, this is my doctor. Right? He thinks I should go there. So off I go. Right. And if the listener doesn't know, Eric's not speaking out of his asshole because your dad was a psychologist through the 70s and 80s. And he hated all of this is not his forte. It's like yeah, okay. So I've got a little bit on the legacy of this amazing franchise. So like I said, in 1978 Gary Brandner is asked by his publisher to come up with the howling to these did not do well apparently, Valley two did just fine. These these books sold very well. These are my copies from a used bookstore in 1984 up in Bellingham called Aardvark books. My very dear friend Jennifer will remember that. And so let's just kind of tie these books into the franchise the movie franchise. Yeah, so the howling, generally, beloved, in this horror community has a rotten tomato score of 74%. The sequel, the book return of the howling, the movie, howling to your sister is a werewolf purports to be in the credits based on Gary Brenners novel The howling too. And in fact, Brandner is listed as a screenwriter in an interview, he says that his original script was written in a way that sounded to me kind of like the way Mike Flanagan's Doctor sleep script was written to be kind of a sequel to the book and to the movie. And so he he had written a screenplay that followed the course of his whole healing to novel but using the surviving members of the howling. Then he started getting script knots, production nodes and all sorts of stuff like this studio coming in and saying, Well, it turns out we are not doing this. We're filming this in Mexico now. And he was like, Oh, well, that's an easy switch. I can switch this to Mexico for some reason. And then they had an actor they really wanted in there and so he wrote a new part for the actor, that actor dropped out. And they were going to be shooting in Yugoslavia instead. And pretty soon he just said, I actually have books to write so I can't do this anymore. They brought in a second screenwriter. And now we have the cinematic classic starring civil Denning Chris really, and red brown that we're all familiar with. It has Rotten Tomatoes score of 14% Oh, howling three is gonna get better. The marsupial's is not based on the novel, how thing three, which is a prequel to the howling I will say this having read all three of these books, the howling so so the howling to fantastic the howling three the best of the bunch. This is not how the franchise goes with the film's the howling three the marsupial's is the last film in the franchise to be re released theatrically, it has absolutely nothing to do with brand new third book, but the screen credits claimed that it is based on the book, The howling three echoes. It has a rotten tomato score of 15%, who went up a little, very little howling for the original nightmare is from 1988. And it's actually fairly faithful adaptation of the original Halloween. Oh my god. Unfortunately, it is such a ghetto film. The acting is horrible. The writing is horrible and the effects are horrible and it is almost unwatchable. It has a rotten tomato score of 15% going up it's howling five. The Rebirth oh my god I forgot there was a film comes out in 1990 budget of $2 million and Rotten Tomatoes score of 27 per se Hey, I couldn't find this movie to even watch because it is out of print and has not been re released since its 2000 DVD release. Is it? Seth Sherwood says that the howling five the rebirth is the best one other than the original. Well come on let's let's say the bar is not high. Howling six the free picks Oh is released in 1991 and is considered a horror slash comedy. It claims to have minor elements from Brandon's third novel. But I found nothing in there that I recognized. It has a Rotten Tomatoes score of 18% the howling New Moon rising Yeah, go. Oh my god is the seventh film in the franchise from 1995. It has a rotten tomato score of 9%. And Interestingly though, it tries to connect all of the unconnected sequels together. I was like I gotta appreciate this writer who's just sitting there going? What the fuck? Yeah, it's not good, but I appreciated that part of it. And we are all familiar with this shit franchise of films. But how many of you knew that there was the howling reborn in 2011? Of course, Sherwood did, we have our howling master here. The story is credited as being based on the novel The howling two. But really, the only elements of the howling in it are from the movie, which are not from the book. And so it's a very teen and high school focused storyline, and I thought it had a lot more in common with Michael J. Foxes, Teen Wolf, than the original howling. It has a rotten tomato score of 17%. And then finally, she says in January of 2020, oh my god, the director of it, and the flash, Andy machete, announced that he was making a full remake of the howling for Netflix. And then in March of 2020, the world shut down completely. And this film seems to be one of the casualties of all that there's been no news on this. And I have no idea if this is actually going forward. But that is the franchise the howling Wow. That's a lot of howling. That's a lot of howling. Yeah, I gotta say, you know, so for this podcast, I watched. I watched air quotes the rest of the franchise while I was doing laundry, and vacuuming and all sorts of other things. And it was it was just really depressing. Kind of, well, I mean, the end credits of the howling two are played over Sybil Danning tearing over her shirt, and like six times, so they just replay that scene because it is it is obviously the best scene in the movie. And so that was kind of sad. And Christopher Lee is in it, and you're like, oh, man, I really want to love everything about and it is a direct sequel to the movie. The title is so stupid. But it is the brother of Karen is the protagonist in the film. He's found out that his sister is well off was Oh, okay. Do die. And then and then it just gets really really bad. And unfortunately, I could not find the one that Seth considers the best in the franchise. Except for number one. But I will now take with a grain of salt everything just says so any any final note on this you guys hear your feelings on this movie. I mean, I enjoyed it the first time I saw it and when you guys were like oh, we have to watch the howling Oh Oh, why did we choose this? And I was like, I seem to remember liking it. So I don't know. I watched it. And I was like, Yeah, I still like it. It's got some issues, but I don't know it's enjoyable enough. And I love the kind of TV station II stuff. And it's kind of fun and fast and up stage. I don't love that every single product and it has the word Wolf on it. Every object on planet Earth in 1981 that had any kind of wolf or dog insignia was bought and put into this movie as a prop. So yeah, sure, why not? I think that Landis did it better with just the music and American Werewolf and I like American Werewolf a lot more than this, even though I mean there's a lot of humor in the howling. It's very satirical. There's a lot of actual humor in American Werewolf, but I'll say this even you know, even the wolf in is a more interesting movie to me then the howling is yeah, like the wolf. And I think it's a neat film The there's like a side effect. This one's better than I thought it was. Yeah, I originally saw it. You know, being the movie collecting dark IMSR I don't own the howling. Let's go ahead and buy it. Did you buy the new franchise? boxset? No, I didn't see that one. Now the Blu Ray 4k restoration with all the cool shit in it. And it looks great. They did a great job. It's worth it's worth. There are so few. Good. are so few good wearable film. Yeah, that I think this sits as one of the better. So you got three of the best right there in 1981 Count woven as a werewolf. But there's just not a franchise that it's a storyline that so few people seem to pull in and make something interesting out of for such an interesting idea. Well, it's so weird that it did so well. And then the sequel is just trash. They put no money into the sequel, and you're like, What is going on with this? And why wouldn't you trust this to spend some money on? Let's look at sequels can't remember. I mean, sequels didn't really kick into being fantastic. I mean, like the late 90s, they started to show up as an ever heard of The Empire Strikes Back Wrath of Khan. I mean, damn, Star Trek Three Star Trek for Star Trek five. That that can't be the reason there's something that went on. If you look at horror, we have an insider's point of view. Oh, no audience participation is what it's all about. What if there was one of the producers was like an independent. So that was on the original and Warner Brothers hated him. Because he kept giving terrible notes. And he had, he was one that brought the book to Paramount. So he had a controlling share the IP. So he was in charge of doing the first sequel, and Warner Brothers didn't want to give him any money, any money without Joe Dante attached. And after the second one, which they just said, We'll give it like minimal theatrical and dumped into video. After it did terribly. This guy reverted the rights. He's the one that went on and beta all the sequels, without, without studio backing, and each one progressively had less money to work with and less and no stars and No, nothing. Interesting. Bummer. Ladies and gentlemen, Seth Sherwood, who will be a regular member on the podcast for now. I mean, despite Kenny Kelly's mentioning some of the greatest film franchises of all time, there were a lot of shitty see how it was Jaws, two on or Fridays 13 movies were up and down the Halloween movies. Whoo. Up and down the Hellraiser sequels past a certain point. We're just terrible. I feel like I don't even know you anymore. As like, I like when he goes to space. It's been Oh, I own all Hellraiser movies. I have a problem with those. I'd love that series. Anyway, good morning. Eric's official review. It's a good movie, I will say just to respond to something that Eric said. So you managed to get the HD DVD, Blu ray. And I will say for our audience, anyone who wants to hunt down and watch the howling again. It's really hard to get a hold of I in a good copy. The only way that I could rent it was on Amazon. It was five bucks and it's the SD version. Oh, so for the love of Christ. Just spend the 15 bucks I just ran out of time. You guys have no excuse. So by the good copy, that's serious. We got a couple of minutes left. Anybody got anything else to say? Anybody in the audience James? What the hell? Give me the booze back. You don't deserve that book. Any questions? How's your guys's lives going? Yeah, I don't know, the climax of the howling, in which Karen just cries and can't do anything, and can't even shoot a guy or drive the car. And the guy who's been assigned character for the entire movie has to show up to be the hero for it's absolute incredible. She's like such. She's just like a walking washcloth through this anyway, but I didn't have really high hopes for her. And then when at least when the side character shows up, I'm like, Oh, thank God, you got a gun, your bullets and then it's so frustrating when she's in the car and he's driving. And he has to like basically grab the gun and shoot off individual werewolves while driving because all she can do is sort of balance it in her hands like a hot broomstick. It's yeah, it's very upsetting. Honestly, at least in the final final shot, she actually does something where she's like, I'm gonna wolf up and cry. Like, yeah, you go girl. You take a stand. Babies were tough. It's great to not like in the book, it clearly traumatized her. And she wasn't because it was in a sex shop. She wasn't ready to have sex. And her husband was so not patient with her wanting to have sex again, which is like he ran off to the woods. Yeah. It was pretty Yeah, that's like they spent so much of the film of her acting like it was a kind of rape response. And it was never fully clear to me, you know, quite other than she saw the wolf and therefore she's traumatized. Exactly how that that reality was, but that makes a lot of sense. It's really an interesting plot point. So I always say let's not judge her husband too harshly. She made she remained married to that mantle he died of Cancer man has knees. Kelly, my mom is listening to this podcast. Could you expect nothing less? Listened regularly. On Saturday episode she's got it figured me out. But we haven't a question from the back as well. What is your favorite shows off a Phil? Oh, I will put Gremlins two way above this. I put grandmas Mullins. I love matinee. I love innerspace. I think that I think that he has made some really spectacular films. And this film is is important in his career because Spielberg sees this and says this is the guy that needs to direct gremlins. So you know, I'm not taking anything away from this film. I think there's a lot to like in this. And it. It's all a part of that sleaziness that Hollywood, you know, was really into in the early 80s. And I really appreciate that kind of stuff. I just think that story wise, it doesn't really work for me. Yeah, and part of this is the, what we were just talking about the female protagonist is this newscaster she's she's already 10 times more interesting than the protagonist in the book, who was a housewife and then spends most of the time needing to be rescued at various scenes. In this she has a little bit of sure of agency or or just she's she's trying to figure out there's there's you can tell that she is a investigative reporter because she's curious. That's what I want. She's She's got some curiosity at what's going on. Her husband seems to be like uninterested in the fact that there's this weird howling going on every single night and he's like, is probably the wind. He's like, what do you what are you going on about woman? It sounds like you're sleeping ways. So I you know, there's just it needs a nudge in another direction to make it a little more. I don't know realistic but then I'm that I'm second guessing what Joe Dante wanted to do. I don't think he cared about the werewolf aspect that much. I think he really wanted to make satirical film about the news, self help, therapy, communes, things like that, and he was able to get you know, I'm sure he and John sales over a couple of drinks were like, you know, be great. Let's toss out all of this shit and do this. And then, you know, I don't know. I fucking love John sales is my problem. So I don't want to second guess him because I think he's brilliant. I'm gonna say since Kelly took this and turn it into a whole howling answer. We're almost out of time, so we need to answer quick like, if you want to say your favorite Joe Dante, Phil. Oh, no, it's okay. Yeah, I loved his work. No, calm down. If you guys like our podcast, you should listen to the one where I talk about Gremlins too because that was a A lot of fun. Yeah, it was a while ago, but um, yeah, there's I think Gremlins T is probably my favorite but anyway. Real quick I'll say Gremlins and for a very weird reason. Gremlins when it first came out, I was the right age, and the advertising was very much cute little. And then I go to see this movie and she throws his creature in a microwave and blows his ass. I never looked at it. How am I watching and I loved that. So I think that's part of the reason I like that one so much, even though Gremlins two is more entertaining. Gremlins is to Warner Brothers cartoon. Hit my ass. Okay. All right, guys, so we are out of time. Thank you so much for coming. That's Vanessa over there. Hi. I'm Kelly strange aeons radio. Also check out KC YZ nerd radio. Oh, my God. Other podcasts on our podcast. That's it. We'll see you in seven short days and we're talking about something else. See you next Thursday. Spiders, transportation other considerations for strange aeons radio produced by Pan an airline. When you think of traveling think of pan and you can't be expected. Yes, the strange aeons radio stay at econo lodge ever. It's an easy stop on the road. You know, strange aeons radio is recorded live in front of a studio audience. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a positive review on your favorite podcast. Set we will set I always like my heart. him literally hurting right now.