01 The Limey and Editing Choices

01 The Limey and Editing Choices

Vanessa and Eric embark on a journey into the world of films with a new Strange Aeons Radio series, The Filmmaker's Forge.

In this premiere episode, they delve into the art of editing and explore the concept of taking risks in editing and the creative process. 

Transcript

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We're going to talk about what this is. Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration? Somewhere between science and superstition, we have such sites to show you, strange eons. Hello. This is a little bit different take on strange eons. Radio. Regular listeners know that we've gone to two episodes two episodes a month now, every other week. And Vanessa and I are thinking, well, let's talk about some other stuff. So we're going to talk about conceptual editing in a film, and how it doesn't have to be as straightforward as you think. Why Vanessa, why do you think you're good for talking about this well as an editor. So I've been editing as of this year, 20 years now, and definitely have done the whole like, Okay, how do we how do we reconfigure this? Are there ways that we can edit something a little bit differently, or, you know, make something fresher, or make something cooler. You know, editing is a huge part of any story process. And it, it's basically the third version of the film. It's, it's the right, it's, it's written, it's directed, and then afterwards, it's edited, it's put together. That's the final moment we get to take something and put our creative spin on it and try to tell a cool story with it. So I'm really psyched to get an opportunity to look at a film through this lens and see see what I can contribute to this film that Eric has picked for us this week be a little bit official now, then I'm Eric. That's Vanessa. Hello, there we go. I picked this one. Oh, and I've also done, I've edited a couple documentaries, a couple features, a ton of shorts. I've taught editing classes and programs. So what it's worth done some editing stuff. Excellent, excellent. And you know, if this goes well, maybe we'll look at some other things in film, because we've both created our own stuff, maybe not writing. We'd need Kelly for that, at least for me. Yeah, I think that he's definitely expert in that particular portion of this. But yeah, definitely Eric and I have very similar mindset when it comes to looking at films from the technical perspective of post production. And yeah, it's cool to have a nerd friend of that genre before we jump in. Is there a favorite editing software or tool that you like to use? Oh, get technical right away. I have used, I used Final Cut till they became Final Cut X. And like many editors, I went, this is weird. I don't feel like relearning how to edit digitally. And I actually my first editing job way, way back when, was three quarter inch, reel to reel, little VHS machine down, plugging in me, but and then a program around for a while that's not around anymore, called liquid, because I think Adobe bottom and I I've also edited on premiere, and about three or four years ago, I said I don't feel like playing a monthly fee for premiere, so I went to DaVinci Resolve, and I freaking love it. That does so much. It's free to start if you want. It's like 250 to get the studio version for life. All updates free forever, and they, when they do an update, they don't screw around. They actually really do some work. But, you know, I'd imagine, as a pro, you've found one that definitely have learned all the nicks and crannies about to keep using, yeah, so it's tough. So I, like you, learned on Final Cut, I started on, I don't know if it's four or five, and then they went up to x. And I don't know if you remember this, Eric, but when they went to x, the biggest problem I had with it was any little thing you wanted to do, like export to a Pro Res, it was an add on fee. So using any transit was an add on fee, yeah. So they just did a big old fu for their core audience. They tried to make it for any user. They wanted to dumb it down a lot at the time they wanted. Prosumers rather than professional users. And so that was the point where the company I was with at that time, which was Technicolor, started moving over to premiere. I've since been on premiere. I can do avid. I've worked on TV and film and avid, that's typically still being used. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, it's not. I've used it very, very tight. I haven't used it. I've sat in with somebody using it, and it's no, I'm good, yeah, people don't want to leave it because it's so unintuitive that it is such a high bar to learn it, that once you learn it, you don't want to do anything else you're like, I learned this one horrific piece of software I am done. Thank you very much. I am not a fan of it. It's like every one click thing for premiere is at least three steps in AVID however, Premier is now putting out an AI version that they are forcing everyone to automatically be on unless you opt out. So, yeah, they're doing some really iffy stuff. So I might be looking more and more towards resolve. I've been putting it off. It's understandable, yeah. I mean, it's premiere for years. Yeah, I just know it so well. I know it's weirdness and it's not perfect, but I just know it so well. Yeah, another weird I'll toss out for selling point of Da Vinci and why I like it so much. Everything's in one program. If you want to edit, like Final Cut X, it's actually in there that is a window that has that style of editing. And there's the regular premiere editing. And obviously it's not as technically big as after effects, but they have a pretty good program of that. And I edit all of our audio in there as well. And of course, color correction is like, that's where they've got their money there all the film. It's big name, and it's fun. It's crazy complicated. That's the complicated one in there. It's like, my god, but in the early 90s, it was a $200,000 program, so when it first started to hit just or midnight. Anyways, yeah, I wonder why they decided to go free, just to just because they really want to dominate the market. They sell the gear. They sell. They make their money selling, selling audio boards and audio like entire audio rooms and and they have cameras and they have video like you can get built in desks of their stuff. Those are expensive. That's where they make their money, 10s of 1000s of dollars for some of them. But anyways, so what are we talking about? Do you remember what movie I do? I remember that we are talking about the amazing film from 1999 the limey. My name's Wilson. You wrote me about my daughter, this bloke, she was bunked up with Terry Valentine. What's she got to say for himself? You tell him, get your gift while I'm after you tell him I'm coming. Tell him I'm coming. Jenny never told you about her dad. What dad? When it was in prison for nine years, he was released last month, as long as nobody can connect enemy to me, I won't Get to get what I'm after till the day. The I guess I did the Rotten Tomatoes specifically because I was interested how different they are. The reviewers and stuff hit 92 the general public is 78 Wow. But anyways, yeah, this was directed by that crazy filmmaker Steven Soderbergh. What are some of your favorite Soderbergh films? Oh, gosh, I like a lot of his stuff. But then at the same time, it's funny, I thought I liked tons, and then I looked back through stuff and was like, I also don't really. Care about tons of them. Like, I haven't seen Logan lucky Chase, fine, but I have recently talked about black bag. He did Kimmy, which was really interesting presence I just saw, which was great magic. Mike, so, okay, the place. Man, he's everywhere, yeah, and then, like, Erin Brockovich is incredible. I actually have not seen sex laws in videotape, but it's pretty bad. I would love to, yeah. And I enjoy oceans 11. I think it's an entirely fun popcorn kind of movie. And Kafka is wild, really, yeah, out of sight is pretty good. And of course, traffic is his Oscar winning one written by LEM Dobbs, who wrote a movie I just talked about Dark City. Oh yeah. Oh crazy. Okay, so and the score, hard way, stuff like that. And edited by, edited by oh my gosh, I've lost Sarah black, absolutely so Sarah flack has done she did, lost in translation. She recently, more recently, did Priscilla, which I didn't see, but I heard a lot of good things about, um, she's got 37 editing credits, so she's been around for a minute. And also, Dave Chappelle, block party. Very interesting, sure. And come on, Book of Shadows. Blair Witch, too. Oh, she didn't write it. So, you know, I can hold that against her. The main actor in this the limey is Terence Stamp, who is wonderful in the movie you hated last night in Soho or didn't like, didn't hate, but didn't, I didn't hate it at all. I didn't hate it. It was just there was there was a thing about the culture where it was out of touch. But it was a good movie. It was a good movie. He's in one that I find a ridiculously underrated movie about Mickey movies, which is bofinger. Oh yeah. I loved bofinger. Yeah. That was a great film, fun film, and, you know, a crap ton of stuff. Also a little known actor, Peter Fonda. Oh yeah. Peter Fonda, when I first saw him pop up in this one, was like, Really, you have very white teeth, whoever you are. And I kind of hovered my mouse over the the Amazon screen. It was like, Oh, shoot. All right, yeah, he does look different from like, if you've only seen him, an easy writer, or some of those films, and Leslie and Warren, who's in the amazing, wonderful clue. I It's been so long since I've seen clue. I know you love that movie, though. Yeah. GREAT film. Victor Victoria, another really good movie, and let's see Lewis Gosman. Guzman, yeah. Luis Guzman, really excited to see him pop up in this. I mean, I think it's a joy every time you get Luis Guzman and he's, I don't know, he brings a lot of energy to this film. So, yeah, he really does. I mean, it's, you know, he had his dumb and dumber and Harry met Lloyd moment. But he's definitely an actor's actor in that sure pay me. I'll give it a shot. And he's doesn't matter what he's in, he's going to be good. This is a deep talk on the film. So if you haven't seen it and you're curious about what we're going to talk about, go watch it. It's on Prime without a rental, and a few other places for rental. We're definitely going to talk about all kinds of stuff that happens in it. I would think. So, yeah, so why did you pick this movie before we jump in? Because, I mean, I now kind of get it because I haven't seen it before, but you have seen it. So what was it about this that, like, really piqued your interest? It 99 so I'd been pre done some music videos. I've done some some stuff by then, some shorts, but not a lot. But watching this warped my thinking of editing. Altered the thinking idea of The ABCs of editing, of the cut here, cut there. Do this, make everything easily understandable. You know, make sure you go from point A to point B, get in and out as quick as you can. You know, all the things of editing, and boy, it turns out on its head in a lot of scenes, not all the time. There's plenty of times where it's really straightforward. They do some interesting stuff. What did you think on your first viewing? Um, you know, it took me a minute to kind of work out what, like, what this style was, and kind of like where we were, and I don't know like it, I was sort of like, okay, trying to come to grip. With it. But it was this sort of mix of like, unconscious and so natural with the way that it is that even though we're like, he'll be talking to another person, and then all of a sudden we are in a shot of him sitting alone on train or sitting in a hotel room, or looking at something, or in a memory, like it's just it feels so natural that it really doesn't jar you in the way that a lot of creative 1999 editing will. That's a strong year for edit decisions. That's true matrix and all that stuff. Yeah, if you were to linearly tell this story in its regular fashion, it would be okay. Yes, because it's a very, very basic revenge story. Yeah, guys, daughter gets killed, he goes to find out who did it, and he exacts his revenge eventually, after things happen. But yeah, that's 100% Yeah, a guy from, you know, a Cockney, a Cockney bro, comes to LA to figure out what happened to his daughter. And kind of, yeah, like a bit of a who done it in the Hollywood Hills, and, yeah, in and out. It's sort of like memento, or if you flipped Memento and watched it in order. It would still be a pretty good film, but it would definitely not. It would not tell the right story. Yeah, let's see how to dive in. Since this is one of our first we'll fumble along in nice little ways. I did like the the all black at the beginning, where it's just all black, and you start to hear him speak, tell me, tell me. Tell me about Jenny. That is a neat way to go. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this, but it's a neat way to go. What you see isn't as important as what you hear, right? And a lot of in a lot of segments of this movie, which is very true, I think it might be easier if we just kind of jump around a little bit Sure, yeah, like the movie did much like the movie? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was something that they started doing pretty early on that I really loved was so the main character's name is Wilson. When he arrives in LA we start with him at the airport, we almost immediately start cutting to just these like images, these very abstract images of his daughter, and we don't really know the context of them. We see her kind of looking at him through different moments in her life, and she always looks like a little displeased or a little like judgy or a little like you can tell the relationship is not strong, and it's such a good representation of showing and not telling where the rest of the film is, then going to spend time filling in some blanks for you. And yeah, I just, I really love that choice of like, it just brings a lot of intrigue. Like, okay, who is this person? And at first it's like, Is it his daughter? Is it his? You know, who is this girl to him? And then you find out it is his deceased daughter. I hmm, yeah, yeah. It's a great way to do it too, because as the movie moves forward, you realize him and his daughter really didn't have a very good relationship at all much upon period. And the idea, because if you're going to think back to people that mean to you and love to you. Mean something to you. Generally, you might think of the happier stuff a little bit more. And so it feels a little weird to see her glaring at them on the phone, or the shot at the beach they use a lot with the light showing her face, yeah, where it's almost like I was kind of trying to figure out, like, was he, like, shining the light on her face to, like, mess with her? Or, like, what is it? Because she was like, Ah, my eyes, but yeah, definitely like her on the phone. I feel like there's this, the way that it's, it's portrayed, is it's almost like he can't get this guilt, this feeling of like, I don't guilt, or like, a knees in the relationship, out of his head. And there's, she's a professional criminal who spent a lot of time in and out of the the British prison system at His Majesty service, and she she really did not want him to be engaged in any criminal activities. So you do get this sort of you. Yeah, butting heads going on. And then he meets the guy that sent him the letter, which is Guzman, but no indication of why he sent the letter initially. So, I mean, it turns out to be kind of basic too, which, again, goes to the this is a better story because of the way it's told. The editing is great with this, because you can tell that there are shots that would have been normally left on the cutting room floor where they shot things in, like a side shot and a straight on shot and and the way that it's cut when he first meets this guy, which is played by Louise Guzman, is you kind of almost are like, is he telling the truth? What was this guy to her like? Because the way they're using the the multiple takes, it's almost like he says certain lines with different emphasis when they re show it, and you're like, oh, Was he lying that first time? Or, you know, what? What does he mean where there was an accident and, you know, are they just friends? Did they How did they need, you know, who's who's this guy to her? And I think that building up that suspicion through these weird takes that are altering really helps you get in the mindset of Wilson, yeah, yeah. I think it's great. The and the the stuff that isn't coming from the lie me directly, but is more like when Guzman's telling him stuff has these great blue shading over the top, almost like it's shot through a blue gel. And it's it's filling in blanks for him, and knowing that that is not what he's remembering, because he wasn't, obviously, isn't involved in those events. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And there's, and it's so um, unreliable to these, the way that these like strange shots that are often, you know, like I said, we'll be sitting in one scene, and then we'll be seeing scenes, you know stuff from future scenes or past scenes, or his past memories. And it's very interesting, because sometimes it isn't what happens. A lot of times it is what is going to happen, or you're getting a little hints of what's about to occur as he's following leads. So the the next step after meeting Luis Guzman is finding out some thugs that she might have been involved with. And he goes to check in on this warehouse and the guys, you know, he confronts these guys, and they rough him up a little, and then he proceeds To return to the warehouse and murder them all. You You tell him, You tell him I'm coming. Tell him I'm fucking coming. But the way it's told is we get these little hints of, like, he's in the car, he he's, you know, picking up a business card. We see a guy. We see some thugs, and you know, him getting beat up, and then, and then, you know, and then we see a gun and but it's all being told at the same time as he's entering the building. So there's another great little moment in that one when the when he gets beat down a little bit, and the lead guy there leans in to tell him something, and it's shot with these fades, as opposed to him just leaning in. So it feels like whatever he's saying is awful, like you mentioned it already the scene to scene. It goes throughout the movie where it's not get in car, drive, arrive at destination. It's get in car, see where destination might be going to be, and then, then he's thinking back about something that already happened, and then it's wild. But I don't I didn't feel lost, no, no, same. I didn't feel like I was watching a college level experimental film, right, which is so easy to fall into the traps of, when it's you're doing artsy for art's sake, it felt like, okay, like this is an older guy. He's lived a pretty full life, like his mind is wandering. He's like, you know, he's also pretty clever. He's thinking ahead about things. Like he's just skipping around, just like our brains do, and so it's just very easy to follow that process. Yeah, I agree. You know, I think we should do a little break, like we normally do about now, show some weird commercial. Come back, so we'll be back in just sick. Yeah. I when it comes to post production, the editing and packaging of a commercial, ITV stands alone in the technical spotlight, film commercials and many video tape productions are electronically assembled utilizing the Ampex ra 4000 random access programmer. This is known as time code post production. In the case of film, the original footage is processed in house and then transferred to two inch video tape masters and a three quarter inch video cassette work print copy during the transfer, each video frame is encoded with an electronic address consisting of hours, minutes, seconds and frames. An editor will then use the video cassette copy to electronically cut the equivalent of a film work print. This is called offline editing. The next link comes up and it starts over here. Again, a log of all scene addresses and edit points is kept for use during the final assembly. Final assembly of the spot is completed by log addresses being entered into the RA 4000 the RA 4000 searches for the exact scenes and then electronically performs the edits and dissolves. The results a precisely edited, technically clean product. The advantages to the advertiser, many time consuming delays caused by having to send commercials off to a film lab for printing and special effects are eliminated. Finished spots are completed in house, at a saving of both time and money while enhancing quality. And we are back. So yeah, we are discussing the limey and it's crazy editing style. Eric and I as professional editors are breaking this down, checking it out. And Eric tell me, there is there a scene that really stuck out for you? Is there something that really like, you know, raptures your attention in this film? There was one that I saw the film, and then I don't remember. Re watching it again for years, maybe until last week, and a scene that stuck with me the whole time through was when he first goes to see Leslie and Warren. And it's a longer segment, but he he's at the gate, and she's locked the gate so he can't come in, and they're talking back and forth. I You're Jenny's father. Why did you come here? That'd be nice to have a chat with you. That's all No. Why did you come here get a few things sorted out. Been busy, have you how'd you mean, I heard you were what is that adorable expression at her majesty's pleasure? It was the bars. Then. What was it? Wembley Stadium job that was it? Right? Pink Floyd concert receipts, earning interest in an offshore account. Tidy little premium per annum, security like that can't be bought. Must be more comforting than having a daughter to greet you, boy, then she can let me in. You can call me again, and it goes back and forth. And it is not, it is not wide, overshot, overshot, close up, close up at all, and it was so interesting, or the really, really abstract thing that happens next is when he tells her a story, and the story, the vocal never changes, but he's telling the same story at her place, and then out on a wharf or something, and Then, I think, at a restaurant or coffee, yeah, but the story is perfectly linear, but the video jumps to different locations. I think it works. So cool. Do you remember that what I'm talking about there? Yeah, 100% in fact, when, when I was watching that, I felt like it reminds me so much of like hanging out with a friend I have. Seen in a while, or going on a date or something, and you're, you're trying to explain something about your life, and it is like you're, you're spending this whole evening with somebody, and you're, like, relaying this stuff about yourself. And, you know, who knows when you said what? But it just felt like, Okay, we get this concept that they spent this huge amount of time together, catching, you know, learning who one another are are. She is the acting teacher, slash best friend of his daughter, yeah, something like that. Yeah, definitely his teacher, but yeah, so she definitely knows her Yeah, yeah. And the teacher also knows they have a really rocky relationship, so there's a lot of judgment from her on this guy, but then they have this weird, like, natural. I want to say chemistry, but I don't want to say it's romantic. It's just sort of a no, it's definitely not. You're right, it's not. But, yeah, that definitely struck me too, where I was like, I love when I love that kind of editing, where it's match cuts, but it was match audio and not match cuts. It was like distinctly unmatched cuts with audio that just brings us through, yeah, this, this story that he's playing, yeah. I just thought that was really, really cool, another really interesting editing moment. Or did you have a favorite segment like that that hits you real strong. I think at the it's, it's probably near the end, so I don't know if I if we want to jump all the way there or not. Well, there's another one then that I thought was really cool is when he goes to the party for Peter Fonda's house, and he starts to visualize killing him. Yes, the unreliable one, yeah, it starts off, and everything's slowed down, and the audio is really low, and he goes in, and it gets loud when he shoots the guy, but then you realize, Oh, that wasn't real. So it speeds up just a little bit, and it gets a little bit louder, and he shoots him a little more violently, yeah. And then goes back again, and it does it one more time where it's full party volume, yeah, the most violent shooting of the three. So it's all like, Oh, this is when you oh no, he doesn't actually Wow. And I was like, Is this real? Is this not real? Because all the other ones previously had been, as far as we know, as an audience, real, and this one was, but you had that clue that from that audio change of volume and just rhythm, it did feel like, okay, maybe he's imagining this one. And the first time he gets him in the chest, and the second time he shoots him, and he kind of misses and gets him in like, the shoulder, yeah, right. And then the last time gets him square in the head, and get to see the brains flying out. I think maybe I couldn't inserted that, but it was very, very cool, just like seeing kind of his processing. And then, of course, he's we watched him go in, and the tension builds, and you're like, Oh my God, he's gonna murder this guy. And Luis Guzman puts, I don't know if this guy's the actual character name, but he stops him. He's like, Hey, man, pull it back. First. Christopher cross album, yeah, yeah, wow. That record changed my mind. This is not gonna happen. Yeah, it's really good. Their relationship is so cool. It's so unique, because they're really friendly in this one thing. But you know is it almost feels like as soon as he leaves, they're never going to talk again, this event, this happening, they're completely together. Yeah, really cool. Yeah. I think that leads me to, like one thing that did kind of throw me off, and I wasn't sure what you made of it. A lot of it, I felt like, Okay, I'm inside of his head, and that's why we're skipping around. But then we started doing that with other characters, like the Hitman that the security for the the actor slash boyfriend of his daughter, um, sends out some hitmen to go after him, and then we have this, like, sort of telling of them in the bar, hanging out playing pool, and it does a skipping time thing with them. And I was like, I wonder why we're doing it with other characters. And then we do it with Luis Guzman as well. When he's we see him cooking at a restaurant, and then he leaves, and then we see him driving the car. So clearly, he's been asked to, you know, put his life on hold and drive this guy around to help him get revenge. But yeah, I was trying to work out, like, why other characters were also going through this thing, and I couldn't quite feel. Figure it out. I have a theory on that, and I don't know if it plays into your end concept, but let's see what else I had here. Well, honestly, as the But another interesting thing in the movie is it starts off really erratic, and the more the story comes together, the more you meet all the characters, the more everything begins. It becomes less erratic in its editing and a little more traditional. Oh, interesting. But still have a theory on that. But let's but why not? Let's talk about what your favorite segment was, even if it is the end, yeah, so at the end, I mean, the whole, the whole story is, of course, him like trying to find the person responsible for his daughter's death. He finds this music producer, guy who was dating her, and somehow seems to be behind it. He's not exactly sure how, but he's going to kill him, he's decided. And at the very end there, he catches up with the guy. He's they've taken out all of his security, slash his security has been taken out by his other security. It's a huge chaotic mess. There were too many people involved and getting greedy and making poor decisions. So in the end, he really didn't have to do that much work. He just had to show up. And he's chasing this guy down the beach at night. And the guy is just a weaselly, worthless guy. He's running. He trips on a rock, he gets a compound fracture. He's just sort of, you know, back, back, crawling on the ground, slithering around, and he finally tells him the story. You know, he's he the dad says, Tell me about Jenny. Tell me. Tell me about Jenny. Tell me about Jenny. Tell me about Jenny. I needed money. I would have given her anything she wanted, but she said she found out about my deal. She tried to stop me. She said she was gonna turn me in. She said she was here to call the cops. I couldn't stop it. It already happened. It was over. She was going to call the cops. She meant it. She had the phone in her head. She was here to call the cops. She meant it. I couldn't stop it. I couldn't do anything. It's cool because we see these flashbacks to her as a kid, and we've already been told by him that she hated him going out on all these jobs. So she would fake call the police, or she'd say, Oh, I got them on the line, and she was never, ever, ever going to actually do it because she loved him, and she was never that kind of person, but she wanted to call him out on his behavior, and she wanted to show a tough front. So in that moment, he realizes that she's dead because of something he did. And I think that all that work of showing her as a kid suddenly comes to a head in that scene, and it's so just beautiful. And he just drops the guy and is like, alright, I don't need you. I don't need to kill you. Now it you know, your guy's life is ruined no matter what, like this dude, you can't come back from whatever has just occurred. He doesn't have to do anything to him, and he's not worth it, right? So wouldn't be satisfying to kill this guy. Would not be satisfied to kill this guy. And he'd already told some story too, about trying to get revenge for some guy who put him away the third time he was in prison and found him on a park bench and could have murdered him and decided not to. So it it reflects that moment too. You know, without even him saying, Hey, you're not worth it to me, he's not saying anything. He's not to say, oh my, my daughter's dead, because it's my fault. We already have all of this information as an audience member through these weird flashbacks, and so I think they just did such a beautiful job, and that scene just brought it all home. Yes, agreed. Here's my theory. It comes a little later than that. So see the whole movie, it's been flashbacking to him sitting on a plane, yeah, and the implication is he, that's him flying Yeah. The end you find out that's him flying home, yeah, which makes me think, because in the shots on the plane, you. He's reacting. He reacts to what's happening in the movie. I think he's remembering everything as he flies back, he's thinking back to what he's what he went through and what he went to, which would explain why he might have memories of like when he called the guy in the restaurant and he came out of the back room, he might go, that's probably what it looked like when he after I called him, or that's why he when there's a scene, forgot which one it was, there's something with his daughter, and it cuts between him, it happening, and then him, very distinctly reacting to what happened, then cuts back to her, and that then cuts back to him, and him and him reacting differently to what had happened the second time around. So for those reactions, he would have had to know what had happened, or it wouldn't have been able to it'd just be him making funny faces on a plane as he flies over to LA. I think that's part of the reason it's sold so unusually. Oh, interesting. Wow, yeah. I think there's something to that for sure, yeah, because it just has that really sporadic feeling of randomness. And he very well could be like, oh yeah. And these weird assassin guys showed up. Who fucking knows what they're about. When you think about things like, I'm going to use a really stupid analogy, because I'm a sports fan, but if you think about a sports game, you've seen pictures. But if you're at the game, you don't know what the guys are doing in the hall before they run out to the crowd, but you picture in your head, oh, this might be what they're doing. That'd be cool, yeah, interesting little quirks like that. Like, I don't remember driving a to b, but I do remember driving past this factory. I almost rewatched it immediately going order factor, but I just didn't have so I'd definitely be watching it again soon. Yeah, I would definitely be interested in watching this the second time through, and seeing what new I get out of it from from that because I feel like there's a lot more to dig through once you know where it's where it's going, and you know that being said. You know, for anybody who is interested in watching it, it is so fun. The writing, like, there are just lines in there that are, like, just incredibly funny or random or like, thoughtful. I just, I love his weird cockney slamming, cockney, rhyming slang, yes, yes, like butchers, and going to have a, I think he said, like a China, and it's like, because they mean different things. It's like, I'm going to have a butchers, which means, look around, because butcher something, something which rhymes with the look around it. It's a whole thing. Like, I lived in London for a long time. It's a whole freaking thing. I never fully could understand it, but it's, it's very cool how people are reacting to him, like, I don't know what you're saying, even in context, I don't know what you mean. So, yeah, one thing we didn't mention that was pretty interesting. Was footage from the movie 1967 film, poor cow. This is what I was going to ask you about as well, because we have these flashbacks to him as a when he's married, and him and his wife and like his friends. And I'm like, I think this is him. I think this is good. Yeah, I could. I was like, What is this? Did they just get a really good look like, and then film it on, like, 16 or, like, what is this? I'm looking at is, man, I It's called poor cow. I said it's 67 and it works. I mean, it very much fits a young guy in love, and then there's a judge in there at one point, and scenes that may have nothing to do with crime in the film itself, but looks like it could be somebody doing something. Apparently, when he was doing that, Soderbergh did not know what he wanted to use, so he went to Warner Brothers and said, I just want to license the movie and use whatever parts I need as I need them. And they said no initially. And he said, If I don't have full access, I'm just not going to make this film. He had it going on, and they're like, Okay, fine, use whatever you want. And the band, they used it really well. They did a great job that was so beautifully written. And just yeah, like it. It really helps bring a lot of it to life, because it gives that extra piece of nostalgia and memory and. Yeah, and there are a few lines throughout this film about nostalgia and memory, where the music producer is famous for bringing 1960 style music that people are starting to kind of sound like, I'm guessing, the sort of Oasis period to light and making huge amounts of money off of this style. And then he is telling his new girlfriend, his new like, gorgeous actress girlfriend, far too young for him, about, you know, it's, it was all about the 60s. Really just took place in 1966 and 1967 and it was a world that was like a dream that, you know, as a place that doesn't exist, but except for in your mind. And that's what the 60s were. And it's just this cool, like, strange thing about we the way we remember, and the the life we live through, that I don't know. It's neat. I like that. No, that's really good. What he was saying. I was kind of looking up what Soderberg was doing around that time. He'd done out of sight just before, and he was about to do Brockovich traffic in oceans 11, so he was on the verge of exploding. Yeah, I read an article with him talking about the process for this, which I know we can get into in a minute. Um, he talked about he got nominated for all these awards for out of sight, and they called him, but he was so stressed out over this movie that he just did not care. He was just like, I don't care. My life is in a really bad place right now, and my brain is somewhere else. So, yeah, so do you want to walk us through kind of why this movie is cut the way it is. Quick, quick sidebar, real quick. Kevin Ken Loach was the director of poor cow. Oh man. Ken Loach, wow, okay, yeah, I read a little bit into that of what it might have been, and see if you've read the same thing or something different. But that they made it, they made the movie, they finished it, and they realized this could be a lot better. This is, like we were saying earlier, this is kind of a generic, straightforward revenge movie. And so he went back into the editing bay. I was originally prepared to give a lot of credit to his editor, yeah, who obviously is very important. But reading further, it sounded like it was a lot of him, yeah. And, I mean, sir, I'm sure Sarah contributed greatly, because that's impossible not to, you know, basically editing like that is largely two people sitting in the room. So who really contributed will never really be known by anybody other than the two of them. 100% Yeah, the article I read was him reflecting back on it, what right before the HD release of it. And him saying that when they put out the linear cut and start showing it, they were like, this movie sucks. Like, this movie is not a movie. It's not an interesting movie. This movie sucks. And he was like, we took it back. He said, I want to say we recut it, but we completely started from zero and tried to work out, like, and I don't know what that process looked like, as far as how they came to come to the conclusion of, I know that they re shot a bunch of stuff that was that kind of thinking, spacey stuff, where it's like just looking at some wind chimes, or just, they shot a lot of extra pieces that they could assemble into it, but that they it was a disaster, like this film was going to be disaster, and so they saved it via the strange choices in this edit. And in the end, you know, whoever did the most really doesn't matter. The fact is, they came together and made a really, really interesting film that like you, like you just said there, I think I have no problem believing if they screen this as a linear storyline, it'd be like, Fine, you guys showing anything else today. This has not fulfilled my movie needs. Yeah, I think I've heard it compared to cubism, but which makes a lot of sense to me, I like that. I think it's really cool in the way that it's very telling about our process as editors. Because even though this is a very extreme example of that we are often forced to make problem solving decisions. Where the number of times I've had a director who said, Hey, you got to use this shot. Where's this shot? We spent all day on the shot. And I'm like, shot doesn't exist. Bro, I don't know what to tell you. Gonna look, look through the footage again. I'm like, I've looked literally 10 times, but I will look 11, you know, and gone piece by piece by piece. And like, I'm sorry you didn't, you didn't do it. It's not in the can or they think something looks great, and it's actually, it was shaking the whole time. I think this is a fun discussion. I like talking editing with you. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah, did it work for you? Something else we can do again in the future? Maybe? Yeah, definitely. I think that these will be, like, really cool little like, I like these, like, little vignettes and things that we can try out. We can definitely do discussions of, you know, whatever, whether that's editing, whether that's, you know, picking different things apart, or I'm very keen. I'm very, very Yeah, if you liked listening to this great the usual spiel of, thanks for share us around. Let us know if this was dumb. I only like Kelly, fine. I really like Kelly too. What the heck? Bring back Kelly? Okay, what would Kelly do? There's a bumper sticker. WW, KD, I'm glad we did this, and we'll do it again sometime, if people like it, if you don't like it, we might do it again anyways, because we like talking movies. We sure do. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for tuning in and checking us out. You know, per usual, please share us around. Jump on Facebook. Say hey, let us know what you think of it. Let us know if you have any ideas that you would like to check out. And also, of course, feel free to donate money our way so we can continue to do these awesome things. Eric, how do we get money into our fine little coffers? I've got PayPal, and we've got, buy me a pizza, buy me a coffee. Technically, the PayPal links on our website, write a check or something that would be weird. That would be interesting. Who would it be to? Who would you write a check to? Would it be just strange hands, radio or just Eric cash? Well, thank you, and we will talk again soon. All right, bye, bye, transportation and other considerations for strange eons, radio produced by Pan Am airlines. When you think of traveling, think of Pan Am. You can't beat the experience. Guests of strange eons radio stay at econo lodge Everett. It's an easy stop on the road. Strange eons. Radio is recorded live in front of a studio audience. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a positive review on your favorite podcast, sit Ubu. Sit, it was an add on fee.